My way cool water pump!

Special thanks to Verell (again!) for his help with my 308. During my recent changing of the timing belts and tensioners, Verell came over to help me through it for the first time. He also recommended that I rebuild the water pump. So, here it is all finished. We replaced the bearings with stainless (from McMaster Carr) and also replaced the seal with a #409 (thanks everyone who helped out on that reference). As a finishing touch, Verell used his powder coating skills to do a black powdercoat on the pulley and a silver powdercoat on the pump housing. Looks BEAUTIFUL!

Birdman
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So freaking cool.

I nominate Verell as man of the year. Is there anyone out there more willing to help a guy out??

I need someone like that to help me re-do my brake calipers!

 

The bestest looking water pump I've seen!

Verell, do ya think you could make a business out of just rebuilding water pumps for us?

 

Jerry just move EAST to the land of snow and salt
DAVID

 

Verell should definitely be Fchat man of the year! I'm continually amazed by the depth of his knowledge! He's also a fun guy. We have a blast out here in MA. I feel bad for all you people who live too far away to hang out at Verell's house drinking hard cider and working on 308's! Verell, maybe it's time to quit your day job and start charging us for all the mooching we do! No wait, I can't afford it. Don't do that...how about a water pump rebuilding service?

FYI, my water pump rebuild was not expensive, but not especially cheap. The stainless bearings are about $40 each (you need two). They are twice as much as normal steel bearings, but worth it I'm told. The seal was another $15 and the gasket another $5. Add shipping and you are a little over a hundred bucks for parts. (This is for a water pump that has been modified to use a non-Ferrari seal. If you need the Ferrari seal, it's $40). If you add labor and powdercoating, you would have to charge at least $250-$300 to make a rebuild service worth the time. How does that compare to what others charge?

Birdman

 

Verell would get my vote!

 

Jonathan,

Here's a thread with some numbers for you from my 328's waterpump (WP) rebuild that was done during its 30k major service in May/June:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20753

Looks like I, too, had two large bearings, a gasket, a seal, and some other miscellaneous parts. My parts came to $123 total, and labor was built in to the major service...

Mine's not power coated, though! That sure does look nice. It's an extra--would everone who just "needs to get the friggen waterpump rebuilt so my car can get back on the road" opt for that?

The other issue you face is, unless someone can Remove/reinstall their waterpump by themselves, they'll probably just take it to a mechanic and have them do it...

Poweder coating aside, which was harder--the WP rebuild itself, or the remove/reinstall?


--Mike

 

I'm in - the tech section nominee for FCHAT Man o' Year!

 

Neither is particularly hard. Probably 30 min to remove, 30-45 min to rebuild, & 30 min to reinstall. This includes jacking the car up, removing the passenger side wheel well liner, & belts.

Biggest PITA is the big c-clip that holds the inner bearing in place. You need a strong c-clip tool that can reach way down inside the WP nose. On reinstall the cone washer that's between the bearing & the c-clip is very hard to get aligned. Probably spent 15mins getting it in place this time. Usually quicker tho.

Double those times if it's your 1st time thru.

Luckily, we were able to re-use the c-clip, cone washer, & impeller locking tab. They're usually part of the std rebuild kits, & often are in rough shape & need to be replaced.

Umm, that isn't just 'silver' powdercoat, it's 'chrome' with a heavy clearcoat so it should hold up a long time. The powdercoating was done before reassembly started.

 

Magnificient! Bravo!

 

Verell,

Next time you rebuild one can you take pictures and do a step by step write-up? I lucked out when I did my major as I found a new pump for cheap. My problem is the 30 hours it takes to get to mine

 

We did take pics of most of the steps. Verell has them on his camera. I took a few with mine, but not all the steps. Verell, want to post those babies?

One thing to add. Getting the WP out of the car is easy if you are doing the cam belts anyway. If you are JUST doing the WP, you can't get it out without removing the forward cam belt cover (it blocks the nuts that hold on the WP). Some people modify the cover (i.e. they grind it) to make the nuts accessible without removing it. But just pulling the WP by itself without pulling anything else is pretty much impossible, at least on a carb car. You have to pull the A/C compressor, and the forward cam belt cover. Once you get that far, you might as well do the cam belts!

Birdman

 

The injected, & possibly even the newer carb'd cars have the cam belt covers machined so that the WP can be removed w/o pulling the covers.

robertgarvin:
The 308 GTB TechTips WP rebuild procedure is pretty easy to follow:
http://www.r-design.net/308/techtip6.htm

Matt Boy'ds writeup on ExpensiveCar.com is step by step w/pix:

http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/water.htm

Umm,
If you heat the wp to about 250 F, the old bearings will usually just drop out, & the new ones drop in...

Thoroughly clean the inside of the WP housing, trying to press a bearing in on top of a lot of caked-on deposits is a great way to crack the housing!

A long & strong c-clip tool is a MUST.

The smaller diameter side of the cone washer goes against the bearing race, larger diameter against the C-clip. Keeping the inner side aligned on the race while installing the c-clip is necessary & may take longer than the rest of the rebuild..

 

Great write up.
What is the part number for the Mcmaster carr bearings, and where do I buy a "409" waterpump seal.
thanks,
Martin.
308 gt4

 

Verell,
according to Ferrari data I have the fourth last built carbed 308 GTB and replacement of the waterpump is the same pita like on the older cars, because the cambelt covers are not machined.
Since I did the translation - and some additions - of Carl's procedure on Robert's website you mention above ( www.r-design.net/308 ) for the german language section I know about the machined covers, though I have never seen any.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Waterpump bearings:

Type #6302
Shaft 15mm, OD 42 mm
McMaster #6153K85
Get the double sealed Stainless one $43
(You need two)

Seal:
McMaster #9281K87
Stainless Steel Pump Shaft Seal Type 304, Industry #409, .625" Shaft, 1.437" Seal OD
$10

Again, this pump of mine had been modded by the PO to accept this seal so I don't know which WP's it fits. Verell might know.

 

Umm,
Happened to be looking up the phone for my local bearing supplier.
2 years ago they gave me this price for the WP bearings:

3x8 water pump:
Lg Bearings:
SKF W 6302-2RS1
(w for stainless steel $30 in SS, $12 std)

Sorry McMaster was more Jonathan, but I did suggest you try a bearing supply co at the same time.

Martin,
The newer cam covers aren't machined, Ferrari changed the casting design to give the necessary clearance for servicing the WP. As to which WPs the 409 seal fits, see the WP seal thread:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34538&page=2&pp=20&highlight=water

 

Verell,
You must live near a lot of "local suppliers"! I found no "local bearing supplier" in my yellow pages! It's easier to pay $10 more and have them delivered anyway!

Birdman

 

..... clean, dry and dust free.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Dude,

It looks like you are perilously low on beer. When the blood level in my alcohol system gets to high, I get cranky.

LOL
chris

 

had you going there .... as it's winter time here i only need the one fridge in the garage !
d
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Keeping Ferrari parts chilled makes them assemble better?

Birdman

 

i cannot say ..... the blue one is switched off ('til summer)
cheers, d

 

Was sorting the pix from my camera & thought you'd appreciate the attached pix of Birdman's waterpump.
Views are:
1) WP housing after several attempts at removing the discoloration by washing with several solvents.

2) WP housing fresh out of the powdercoating oven

3) Exploded view of all parts just before rebuilding the WP.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login