V12 & auto trans from 400 & 412 | FerrariChat
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V12 & auto trans from 400 & 412

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Horsefly, Feb 17, 2005.

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  1. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
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    #1 Horsefly, Feb 17, 2005
    From what I've been reading, the only Ferraris with an automatic were SOME of the 400 and 412 that used a GM Turbo 400 transmission. But I've also read that any such car in the United States would have to be a gray market car because they were never officially exported from Italy into the U.S. by Ferrari. What are the odds of actually finding a used V12 and Turbo 400 transmission from a 400 or 412 here in the U.S.? Any idea how many of these actually made it to the U.S.? I would like to find such a set up for a hot rod project, but am wondering if they are even out there to find?

    Also, I've read that the 400 and 412 V12s were all injected. Will an earlier carbureted intake manifold fit onto the 400 and 412 block and cylinder heads?

    I guess that would be my goal; find a 400 or 412 V12 with a Turbo 400 transmission and convert it over to carburetors for my project.
    Am I crazy?
     
  2. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    #2 PSk, Feb 17, 2005
    Well I can answer the last question, resoundingly YES ;) :D.

    Seriously though, you can get a 400 with factory carbs but it would be a rare thing. Why ever do you want an auto? ... but that is your personal choice.

    I would think it would be very easy to find a 412i engine with an auto hanging off the back ... infact rareparts.nl is selling one ... but watch out there was one of these engines stolen recently (same thread ...).

    Pete
     
  3. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    #3 Horsefly, Feb 17, 2005
    Because nobody else wants it! (the price is therefore lower! Also, if I remember from a previous posting, the Turbo 400 auto trans used on the Ferraris had a different bolt pattern (or adapter plate?) than standard GM turbo 400 autos that were put in Chevrolet cars. So they are somewhat unique.

    Also, after conversing with several friends with years of hot rodding experience, the repetitive act of shifting gears gets old after awhile. Since MOST of us aren't Phil Hill or Sterling Moss, our cars are just weekend fun machines. And why not just put it in Drive and enjoy the ride.

    I was aware of that also. (I read Tom's site as well.)
     
  4. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #4 PSk, Feb 17, 2005
    Yeah thought that would be your reason. You could very easily convert a manual to an auto or visa versa.

    I must say you hot rod people must be real lazy, most have big torque motors ... thus little requirement to change gear, just chuck in top once rolling and surf the torque :).

    Pete
    BTW: plenty of Jag v12's lying around too, which look real good with carbs ... just giving you options.
     
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    #5 ernie, Feb 18, 2005
    Actually the 456 came in an automatic. It is know as the 456 GTA. The "A" standing for automatic. However the auto in the 456 is absolutly nothing like the Turbo 400 used in the 400/412. The automatic trany in the 456 is mounted in the rear of the car, were as the auto in the 400 is mounted in the traditional possition, right behind the engine.
     
  6. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
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    #6 parkerfe, Feb 18, 2005
    All 400s had carbs whereas all 400i and 412i had FI. i once owned Al Garthwaite's of ALGAR Ferrari daily driver 400GT 5 speed and it was a wonderful car.
     
  7. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
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    #7 Dave, Feb 18, 2005
    Arlie, the 365 and early 400 had carbs.
     
  8. 400iGuy

    400iGuy Formula 3
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    #8 400iGuy, Feb 18, 2005
    Sounds interesting. Can you provide any info on the "project"? The 365/400/400i/412 is a pretty big engine. I know there would be no way it could replace the 351W in my '34 Ford coupe! It is a great looking engine (maybe I'm prejudiced) especially with the 6 side draft webers on it (365 & 400). The Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection on the 400i (and I assume the 412) is mechanical so there is no concern about having to get computers working or anything like that. You will need the fuel system components from the tank to the FI unit (pump, accumulator, etc.) also.

    Good Luck!
    400iGuy
     
  9. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
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    #9 Horsefly, Feb 18, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a picture of the LONG term project. It's a 40 year old kit car called a Caribee. It was obviously a design copied from the Ferrari 250GTO/Cobra Daytona school of thinking. The long snout and tilt front end looks like it could house a V12. My clunker is built on an MGA frame, but a different frame (Ferrari?) might also be in order.

    Interesting that the Bosch K-Jetronic was a mechanical system. My fuel injection book is buried away in storage, and I couldn't remember the specifics of the K-Jetronic system. How about a Rochester fuel injection setup on a Ferrari V12? One would have to fabricate a manifold, but that wouldn't be TOO big of a task. Just aluminum welding. I'm sure the Ferrari purists are having seizures at this point.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 Rifledriver, Feb 18, 2005

    There used to be a local car I think it was a 32 Ford with a C4 motor in it. It looked pretty cool. Before I worked with them a couple of guys on the team I am on took it to Bonneville but it never went all that fast. A 32 isn't exactly slippery.
     
  11. 400iGuy

    400iGuy Formula 3
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    #11 400iGuy, Feb 23, 2005
    Ah, Fiberfab! Brings back memories. I helped a friend (who became the Charlotte NC Fiberfab dealer so we could get stuff at dealer cost!) build an AVENGER and a VALKYRIE. I built a Fiberfab dune buggy with a VW Type 3 engine. The Caribee looks interesting. It would be cool with a Ferrari V-12. The AVENGER/VALKRIE was hard enough to get into, the door opening in the Caribee looks challenging!

    400iGuy
     

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