Paranoid owner with testarossa question...

Alright, I suspect I am a paranoid testarossa owner...When I bought the car I was worried about:

1) The brakes being poor...but they have gotten dramatically better with use, presume the pads hadn't seated... Not as good as the porsche, but reasonable...

2) Car smoked when cold out side, dramatically better as it got warmer. Stops after a minute or so....likely water vapor (its 20 degrees out here...brrr). I sat outside and watched some SUV's smoke at least as much, if not more...

3) Worried about the clutch/synchros...now the problem is gone. 800 miles made a world of difference, as did the improving outside temps. Now shifts great!

But I am still perplexed/paranoid about oil usage...this thing is using tons of oil...I have put in 3 quarts over 700 miles, now it looks like it needs 2 more quarts!!!

When I bought it, the oil was on the low end of the dipstick when hot...added 1 quart.

300 miles later...added 2 quarts to get it to read at the high end...

Now 400 miles later, its at the low marker again (cold)!!!

What the heck! The car does not have any major leaks. In the 2 months I have owned it, there are 2 small puddles under the car, about an inch to two in size. Don't seem to be getting bigger...basically tiny drips. The car does smoke other than what was listed above. After a couple of minutes - no smoking/vapor. Doesn't seem to smoke with use either (I like to drive 4000-6500 rpm most of the time...whats the point of driving at idle?), but that might be hard to see. Car passed PPI on purchase, including leakdown..."excellent motor" per LFSC...

So where the heck is this oil going????? Possibilities:

1) It leaks somewhere only when driving.... is this possible? Could those small leaks under the car leak dramatically more with driving?
2) Its going into the radiator fluid (I checked before and it was clean, will check again).
3) Its burning the oil....possible. But I would think if that were the case, I would see some serious smoke behind the car while driving. A quart every 150 miles or so would mean a fair amount of smoke...

If the oil were burning in the combustion chamber, how much smoke would one see???
4) I am somehow overfilling it...and then its burning off...see #3.
5) The ferrari fairy is taking it out at night...just to aggravate me .
6) Combination of the above??? Fairy excluded.

One curiousity, is that it doesn't seem to matter if I check the oil cold, or hot. I can check it ice cold, while running, when hot, after shutting it off, 2,5,10 minutes later- and it always reads the same....!!! What should the difference on the dipstick be hot to cold?

Shouldn't there be a significant difference between ice cold and hot (even when hot it oil temp gauge only moves 1/4 of the way - it has never hit the middle mark)...?

What am I doing wrong here??? The motor seems to run fine, accelerate fine, etc...

Truly your,

Paranoid Bo

 

You have to check it at temperature (fully warmed up), right after shut down.

 

John, I do that...it doesn't seem to make a huge difference...
Logic would dictate that if it is at the low mark ice cold (ie. sitting for 24 hours, and its 20 degrees outside), then it would likely be full when hot...

But, the oil level reads about the same after a 1 hour drive, which I assume would be at regular operating temp...

I really do wonder if I am just continuosly over filling it...

My plan right now is to leave it at the low mark cold, and drive a couple hundred more miles, see if it falls any further...perhaps it won't...

For most folks with testarossa's, if it read full when hot, what does your dipstick read ice cold???

 

Bo, the oil level should be very close to the same whether cold or hot. The oil's viscosity will change, but its volume should not change much. As mentioned, the most important issue is to check the level immediately after shutting down the engine.

It is too early, based on the data presented, to tell whether you are using too much oil. It does not appear to be a leak, as you describe a few drops on the floor. You may be burning oil, but it is not at all evident by your description of the oil level.

I would check your oil several times with the same conditions (cold or hot) immediately after shutting down. It will take two quarts to go from the low mark of the operating level to the upper mark. You may have started off low, added, two quarts to top off, and then had a variation in reading. I would study this a bit more.

Even if it is burning oil, I would not do anything about it. Oil is (relatively) cheap. Major engine service is (relatively) expensive.

Jim S.

 

Have you -changed- the oil since you bought it? Or just added?

If the car sat around a lot, and was only driven short distances by the PO, a lot of the oil may have been replaced over time by water and gasoline. Then when it's driven properly, the stuff flashes off and makes the percieved oil level go down. I knew one dude who bought a garage queen Camaro that was full by the dipstick when he bought it, drove it around for 2 days, and had it go 2 quarts low. He changed the oil and used about 1/2 a quart per fillup from then on. An extreme case, I'll admit.

 

I had a 87 TR - it was my first f-car. It was also a learning experience.

TR's as well as the 348 series I currently own need to be warmed up to shift smoothly. I had to double shift the clutch on both cars until trans fluid was warmed up.

I change the oil in my TR and checked and rechecked the oil level. It always appeared low. Well I kept adding until it was full on the stick....guess what it was about a gallon over full.

You can only accuratly check the oil after the engine has warmed up and you shut down the motor. Now check it. It should be in the middle of the range not to the top.

Too much oil will blow seals in your f-car as well as any newer car.

You do not state how many f-cars you have experience with but if you continue to ask around and you will gain the necesarry knowledge to keep your NEW Experience going and making you smile.

ferrarchat is a great place to get info and the guy and gals on this chat have always been willing to help.

 

Please read the TR manual. You need to follow the prescribed method per Ferrari. That is how the car is designed. I am not sure if TR's are dry sump motors but I think they are. If so you have to check hot and immediately after shutdown. do it the same way every time then report back here. And yes Ferrari's leak! You can loose more oil than you use. Even though you have minimal drip on the garage you can have more under power. This is because things get hot and pressures rise and the oil gets thin and drips out all the nooks and cranies. Also, if the TR oil spec is regular dino oil not synthetic you will leak more. Use the prescribed oil type for factory results. sometimes even if you reseal a motor that was not designed for synthoil you get leaks.

 

I echo your thoughts. The oil level on my 92 512 stays right between max and min, only if I check it 10-15 mins after shutting down. Not a "lets start it because I wont drive it in the rain" exercise, but at least 20 miles. If I check it cold, it does not register on the dip stick and always looks low if I check it right after shut down. The amount being added to this car would cover the whole engine compartment if it was leaking. SO my guess is its now way over full and the owner will have to syphon the excess.

 

You have to be methodical or your oil level readings are meaningless. When you first checked it was at the bottom of the stick and you added 1 qt. That would not have been enough to make much of a difference. Then you checked again and added 2. That may have been the first time it was full but none of us know that because we have no evidence that it was ever checked properly.

Oil does change in volumn hot to cold, it changes quite a bit in level in those tall skinny tanks. So forget that bad piece of info. Billy Bob said to follow Ferrari's method and he's right. Do it their way or don't bother. No information is better than bad information.

Again, check it hot only. Over 160 degrees of oil temp. Ck it with the motor off within 30 seconds or so of motor shut down. That is THE way and the ONLY way it should be checked and it is not that hard.

 

If it has a dry sump check the oil with engine at operating temperature and idling.

 

WRONG

 

I guess even such a beautiful V-12 won't be different from any other engine, so if you want to check if it's likely to burn oil, find a long down hill slope and let the car motor the engine all the way down. Put your foot down at the bottom and if you get a cloud of smoke then the piston rings and/or valve guides are a bit tired.

 

If the cats are doing their job they will burn the oil so completly that smoke will not be seen.

 

This is EXACTLY what I was going to suggest. I have done this "engine oil pump" test on all the cars I have bought, with somebody in another car behind me on the cell-phone to report back at me. As for the only correct way to check the oil level: check the owner's manual of YOUR car.

 

Brian, Guys, I will do this all over agin this weekend, assuming it doesn't snow...and I will report back...

But, here is my question again, from folks who own/work on testarossas:
1) What does the oil level read ice cold? This should be an easy comparison between cars, and there are no variables. Some folks mention it doesn't even register on the dipstick...is this correct??? If thats the case, I'm probably overfilling it and I will run out tonite with my sucking straw and mouthwash, and fix my poor car .

2) How much higher does your dipstick read from ice cold to fully warm??? Are we talking a 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, 1 inch, etc. Maybe the level does change from cold to hot, but I am missing it, as I am looking for a SUBSTANTIAL change. If its only changing a 1/4 inch, then I'm just missing it...

As always, help appreciated.

 

Stone cold it often does not register on stick but that does not matter it is an invalid test. Let me repeat that as some do not seem to understand, IT IS AN INVALID TEST. You do not take a persons temperature by holding a thermometer against their forhead, the info you get is gobledygook and means nothing so why bother? The oil level has one way and one way only of checking. It states in the owners manual to warm the motor until the oil is 158 degrees or more and to test a few seconds after motor shut off. Is there some reason you cannot do that? It is a method that was devised by some pretty smart people, just do it their way.

 

Ok, an update...I think a good portion of the difficulty getting accurate readings is the cold weather out here. My car NEVER hits the middle of the oil gauge. My previous measurement were made when the car was theorhetically warm, but the oil temp gauge just barely budged. This may be giving the erroneous reading. It seems getting the car warm enough in these temps is not easy... Maybe I need to move to California !

Here is what I did last night. Checked the oil level ICE COLD...was at the very bottom of the dipstick (at the low reading). Checked after idling a couple of minutes...up just a fraction. Drove for 15 minutes...oil level the same. Note the temp gauge for the oil is still on ice cold. Drove a bit more, oil level starting to just budge...

Now I decided to let the car idle for 15-20 minutes in my garage (heated), as this was the only way to get the oil temp needle to move significantly without driving for hours. Temp needle moved a little more than 1/4 way to the right, but still no where near the middle of the gauge. Oil level NOW measured 3/4 to the full mark.

It seems the temps out here have a LOT to do with the issues I am having...or non-issues as the case may be! Perhaps in warmer climates the temp needle moves up further, and so does the oil level. I will find out in the summer.

It seems that the oil level is OK for now, not sure what to make of previous readings. The error was on my part, as I didn't figure it took so damn long for the car to heat up. In any other car, 5 minutes and you can check the oil level...not so here...

As always, thanks for helping the paranoid!

 

I have a 1990 Ferrari Testarossa it will not run over 4000 rpm is running rich check the cats and full presser are both good check fuel relays are good was tooled it was the cold start the was the problem ? car runs good to 4000 rpm then cuts out new wire set and caps rotors plugs new gas new fuel pumps and accumulators cleaned all wire connections and gowns tested fuel distributors pleas help if sum one has had this problem thanks.

 

Hello and welcome to the forums! Might want to start your own topic with a very specific subject line, you tend to get more help that way and it won't get lost in this thread. Also, no offense intended but proof-reading is important. Not everyone will get "grounds" from "gowns" and the less confusion the better.

 

Richard, post your problem over in the TR section ( introduce yourself first and a bunch of people will chime in to help you diagnose your issue. Will need some more info, when was the car last serviced? is this a sudden issue? etc. The fuel system is very sensitive and in my experience very difficult to get spot on unless you know exactly how all the components influence the system. Sounds like your car might be suffering from being poorly setup, if it doesn't run well when its cold (open loop) there is a good chance it won't perform when gets warm (closed loop) There are a series of test to perform while the engine is cold and then once it warms up.
Cheers!