Non-FCar Traction Control Problem... HELP!!! | FerrariChat
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Non-FCar Traction Control Problem... HELP!!!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by PatrickShim, Feb 24, 2005.

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  1. PatrickShim

    PatrickShim Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2004
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    Patrick Shim
    #1 PatrickShim, Feb 24, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys... This is not a F-Car problem but I thought I should post here to get some help from tech-savvy F-Chatters.

    I took my '00 Chevy Camaro Z28 to a Chevrolet dealership for a service, and they said I need new rear-differentials. They had the car for a week, replaced a bunch of parts and charged me and my extended warranty company $2,038.02 total after-tax (of which, $977.79 was paid out of my pocket).

    The problem is, since I got my car back, when I apply breaks at slow speeds, the traction-control light comes one and the break feels really funny (same feel I get when the ABS is working). The dealership is saying that it has nothing to do with the job they did, but I think it is related matter.

    What do you guys think? Here's a list of things they have replaced.
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  2. GTO84

    GTO84 Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
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    #2 GTO84, Feb 25, 2005
    A new diff at 5 years old? Wow. I love GM and their millions of TSB's. Did these symptoms occur before you brought it in to the dealer? If not, they are obligated to fix it. If they refuse, contact the bereau of automotive repair and start a case.

    http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdHome.asp
     
  3. PatrickShim

    PatrickShim Formula 3

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    #3 PatrickShim, Feb 25, 2005
    Yeah, I think I messed up the rear-diff... I drive the car pretty hard and have done some things that are not good for the car (donuts, etc.)

    But the main problem is the traction-control problem I began to have after they fixed the rear-diff.... The service guys are saving it has nothing to do with the work they did, but I began to experience the problem as I was leaving the dealership with the car after the rear-diff job.
     
  4. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 DGS, Feb 25, 2005
    My instinct in such cases would be to take the car to another dealer, and tell them to send the bill to the first dealer.

    But most shops won't go along with that.

    Many years ago, I had a second Alfa dealer find a problem after the first one repeated couldn't find it. When they discovered that the first dealer had created the problem (messed up head gasket install), I told them to fix it and send the first dealer the bill. Instead, they put the car on a flatbed and sent it to the first dealer to fix their own mistake.

    The first dealer pulled three studs out of the engine block trying -- they utterly ruined the engine.

    I wound up having to put a junkyard engine in it ... then I traded it on a Toyota. (Fiat had just bought Alfa back then, and the handwriting was on the wall ... of the toilet stall.) (ObFerMaser: The first dealer that ruined the Alfa was a "Chrysler/Alfa/Maserati" dealer -- now long out of business. But it doesn't bode well for the notion of Alfa/Maserati through GM dealers.)

    Lawyers: Am I completely nuts to think you should be able to pick a different dealer to fix a dealer's mistake, without having to waive the first dealer's responsibility? After all, why would you want to take the car to the dealer that messed up in the first place?

    Or is accountability in consumer services an obsolete concept?

    But to get away from rant mode: Another dealer might be able to diagnose the problem ... and the cause. That might at least give you some leverage to get the first dealer to fix it. ... Although by now, "diagnose" isn't a term that much applies to auto repair. It's more like "change parts till it works or melts down completely".
     
  5. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #5 thecarreaper, Feb 25, 2005
    i have had a number of f bodies. the Z28 uses wheel speed sensors to monitor traction as well as to control your abs system. i am willing to bet they let your brake calipers hang by the brake lines and they damaged the wires that go to the sensors. i would remove the rear wheels and look at the harness at each wheel and see if the wires are loose or pulled out of the connectors. they had to have your rear brakes off ( rotors ect) to slide the axels out far enough to get the gear and guts out of the diff. i would DEMAND to see the old parts as i would bet that your gears were fine, and that one of your clutch packs for the limited slip was damaged and making noise. i have had a few badly beat on 6 speed z28's and ram air T/A'S and the rear ends were not ( usually) big problem areas. pinion bearings do go bad in these rears, but i have never had to replace everything in the whole case because of it. ALWAYS ASK FOR THE OLD PARTS WHEN DOING MAJOR REPAIR WORK !!! period. even if you just throw the parts away, or dont know what they do..... the dealership needs to think you know what you are looking at.
     
  6. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #6 Birdman, Feb 25, 2005
    That is SUCH good advice. I totally agree.
     
  7. PatrickShim

    PatrickShim Formula 3

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    #7 PatrickShim, Feb 25, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks guys for the advice!

    The reason why I didn't ask for the old parts is because the damages were looked at by technicians from my extended warranty company (Western General) and they did say that I need new parts. But I'm still not ruling out the fact that some of these small parts insurance companies work with the services shops to rip off the customers. My original estimate was $690 then went up to $2050 once the warranty company got involved. I ended up paying only $977, but still that's more than $690.

    I think what "thecarreaper" said makes a lot of sense. Maybe that is what they did. In fact, when I visited the dealership to see the progress, I think my calipers were dangling from the car.

    Another thing I'm suspecting is the service installing wrong parts. I went to GM parts site to check all the parts they replaced on the car, and found out that the shaft (part #. 26059962) they replaced is for the cars without traction-control.

    I'm really upset with the quality of service and pricing of the job done. As "DGS" said, I think I should have right to go to other Chevy service to get the problems fixed...
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  8. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

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    #8 ham308, Feb 25, 2005
    I'm not an expert, but I would also bet that they failed to re-install a wheel sensor correctly, so the system thinks you're skidding..
     
  9. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #9 thecarreaper, Feb 25, 2005
    i have friends in the business. new /used (car dealers and service shops.) when you have a warranty some shops will ALWAY order more than you need and will charge you and the warranty / insurance company the most they can. they will take "x " number of hours to do the job , but thill charge the max labor time allowed. warranty work is like bonus money for them

    if in fact the part numbers are wrong for your traction control i would drive the car there and demand a loaner while they fix thier **** work for free. if they wont play nice, go as high up as you can. if you paid by credit card, call you credit card company IMMEDIATELY and let them know you want a note made of the charges. the shops need to make money, as do the mechanics, but no one deserves to be screwed over 3 different ways. get your car fixed and DO NOT let up until it is right and you are happy. i speak from MUCH EXPERIENCE, some of the shop managers here fear me. but i am a customer, with a warranty and they have to deal with it.

    :) working on both cars as a hobby and big money business jets teaches you A LOT . guess i am an *******, but thats life :)
     
  10. PatrickShim

    PatrickShim Formula 3

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    #10 PatrickShim, Feb 26, 2005
    Believe or not, I just found a body damage, too.... My car sits a bit low, and they scraped the entire bottom of the rear bumper.... The bumper was painted recently, and the company that did the paint job didn't do a great paint job, so I was going to have them paint it again... but now I can't have them do it, since it's scratched.

    I wrote the following email to the owner of the dealership (Jimmy Hibbard, [email protected]). I hope he would respond to it.


    ---------------------

    Dear Jimmy,

    I wanted to make a formal complaint to you regarding my level of satisfaction with your service department. I got my 2000 Chevy Camaro Z28 serviced by your service dept., and I have experienced the following problems.


    1. Rear-Differential Job
    I recently got a $2,000 worth of job done on my car to replace the rear-differential, and it turned out that they mis-wired my traction control, so now I have to return to the service to get it repaired again. First of all, I have friends at Chevy Racing, and when I forwarded them my copy of invoice, they thought amount of parts and labor I got charged were way too high. Secondly, now I need to take time off from work to go back and drop off my car to get it worked on again (since they miswired parts), and come back to pick it up, and to be frank about it, it's costing me money every time I take time off from work to do that, and that really upsets me.

    2. Sway-bar Bushing Job
    I got my rear sway-bar bushings replaced due to the noise they were making back in Dec '04. They were installed incorrectly, and now they are making even more noise. I dropped the car off at Richard Hibberd Chevy to get to repaired again and according to the tech who worked on it, he was "unable to duplicated customer complaint". Well, the noise is still there, and I got it checked by two independent shops, and they both said that it's problem with the sway-bar bushings.

    3. Body Damage
    My car has a after market rear bumper lips, and I told the service reps SEVERAL TIMES and also in writing to be careful with the car, since it will scrape if they drive it without thinking about it. Well, as soon as I returned from the service, I was detailing my car and discovered a huge scratch on the bottom of the bumper lip. The bumper was painted only two months ago, and it really bothers me that something like that happened. Now, since I didn't find the problem when I picked up the car at the location, it maybe hard for me to prove that R.H. Chevy is responsible, but since it is a damage that happened at R.H. Chevy, it is really disappointing that the damage occurred.


    Let me know what you think I should do. I really want to deal with the situation in a professional manner without getting Chevrolet, BBB, BAR, and others involved. In the past, I have referred many of my friends to Richard Hibberd Chevrolet and now I'm really disappointed that things like these happened.

    Thank you, and when you have time, please reply me at [email protected] or give me a call at 310-927-7410.


    Regards,

    Patrick Shim
     

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