FORD GT. YOUR THOUGHTS

I think they are awesome cars. Lots of power, awesome speed, and according to magazines can get around a track faster than a Challenge Stradale and a GT3. All I hear is that with the amount of power they have they should b compared to cars that cost 3 times a much. But on the other hand it is still a Ford.

 

Correct.

 

you and me both!

doody.

 

Nobody likes a smart ass.

 

Have to disagree. I hate this nostalgic crap. Get a real GT40.

 

A timeless design, with thoroughly modern go, the best of both worlds. Who cares if its a Ford, objectavely its great. Only problen they are waaay over list. How many will Ford produce? How many will they need to produce to bring the price down.

What would you rather have, a used 360, 550 or a new ford GT. Tough choice.

 

it is a nice looking car. I would personally take that car over most ferraris. Getting it serviced might be a problem though

 

absolutely love it. haven't seen one yet.

 

Nobody knows. Dealers play games, huge markups, and unknown allocation. It's a lot easier and simpler to buy a new Ferrari than a Ford GT. You order a Ferrari and pay MSRP. That's all. I guess that's why I've lost interest in the GT even though I like the car.

Service cost is probably more expensive with the Ferrari. I think the comment had to do with having the GT serviced by your average Ford mechanic, who may or may not know what he's doing.

 

Yeah, I believe the initial comment was directed more towards the handling of services and i'm assuming some average tech wouldn't be trusted with a 150k car. They don't with a 30-35k SVT mustang (only SVT trained techs do service), why a 150k Ford GT? My guess is that they'll have specially trained techs and dealerships to handle the services on them.

Regarding cost, it should MUCH cheaper than a Ferrari. Atleast according to this Edmunds interview of the Ford GT build team. Here's a direct quote from Ewing (guy on GT build team). Last sentence pretty much puts the whole cost thing into prospective.

"Edmunds: What about servicing? Is it going to be as much of a nightmare as most midengine cars?
Ewing: No. And again, it helped having the guys on the team who know sports cars and have worked on them and driven them and raced them. You know, we've all lived with the shortcomings of exotic sports cars and service was a big focus for us. A lot of us have lived with the nightmares of maintaining Ferraris and Panteras, and it was all very important for us to design out the typical problems you have with this segment. We also had the advantage of a full-time Ford service engineer following the design and packaging of the car to help us stay out of those problems. Our objective is that this car, as exotic as it is, costs no more to maintain than a car like a Corvette Z06"

For those interested, here's a link to the full interview. A very good and worthwhile read.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/100499/article.html

 

Service issues aside, it's the GT buying part that turned me off.

 

They must have not known what the hell they were doing then. There is nothing that complicated about a Pantera. I know jack about cars and removed the heads, installed roller rockers, and reinstalled the heads. The only thing tricky is the ZF transmission.

 

I don't see how you are qualified to say that the only tricky thing is the ZF trans when, according to you, all you've done is relatively easy stuff like heads and rockers on a Ford V8. The only hard part about taking the heads off of a 351 Cleveland is getting off your butt and doing it.

Try a few things like: brake lines, cooling lines, fuel lines, exhaust manifolds, oil lines, clutch replacements, water pumps, alternators, etc etc. Heads are easy to get to on just about any car save an F-body Trans-Am/Camaro. It's the little stuff that really kicks you in the butt.

In addition, saying "The only thing tricky is the ZF transmission" is like saying "The only tricky thing about light speed is the whole relativity thing". You've obviously never even attempted to go near a ZF trans.

Try and do something simple like a belt change on this bastard: http://www.seriouswheels.com/1970-1979/1972-DeTomaso-Pantera-eb-351-cleveland.htm

I've never worked on a Pantera, but I would assume that there is panel that can be removed from the cabin allowing access to the engine. That panel probably takes a good 5-10 minutes to remove properly. Then have a grand time reaching your hand in there to snake the belt around all the crap it needs to spin.

 

...uh, Billy....Matt OWNS a Pantera.

 

Just because I've only done head work on the 351C, does not mean I don't understand that it's still just an old Ford engine, that's 30+ years old and far less technically challenging than a modern engine, certainly nothing like any Ferrari, which what the author of the above article was talking about in relation to.

Well, considering I had never touched an engine in my life, and had to learn everything from forums and books, I considered it quite challenging. I guess you are some Ford small-block God that you find it uplifting to belittle me? Whatever.

What the hell are you talking about? My above response was that the Pantera was not a complicated car. I know enough about the Pantera and cars in general to realize that. Every Pantera owner knows this. Why you feel desire to start slamming me for mechanical noviceness is beyond me. I has nothing to do with Panteras being easy to work on.

Good Lord, I'm sorry I didn't use the approved verbage. You're right though, I would never touch any transmission, much less a -2 ZF. It doesn't mean I don't know Pantera owners who DO work on theri ZF's, quite successfully, with no ZF training (which Ford mechanics got back in the day).

The belts are still in the same place smart guy. I've seen non-stock engine setups like that before, I know what's involved.

Obviously.

I've put on all those belts before too, it's not that hard.

 

I've never used the term owned before but I do believe it would apply to this post.

 

When I saw the concept car at the Auto Show in Jan 2004, I was pretty excited. I started to contact Ford dealers, and got nothing but the runaround. It was an absolute joke. All this "market pricing" crap. All of the sudden, the Ford dealers become snobs, and think they are "it". What a joke.

So, I figured if I wanted one, I would wait till the hype died down, then jump into one. But then, when I finally saw the production version, my excitement diminished considerably. After seeing 2 production cars on the street, I really have lost interest in the car. It's a badass performer, for sure. But the interior quality is not anywhere near what the concept car was. And, the exterior body panels look like they were put together in a high-school shop class out of large Lego blocks. They have so many little body panels on the car, that it looks cheap. The only real draw to this car (in my mind) is the performance. And seeing as the horsepower wars are alive and well, it won't be long before the Gallardo will have 600hp, the Murci will have 700+hp, the 430CS with probably 550+hp, and even the Z06 Vette will have 500hp. There is no way that Ford is going to be able to squeeze much more out of their forced-induction V8 powerplant, without some serious risk & warranty issues. All those factors combined cause me to have no interest in the Ford GT. There are several other cars I'd rather have, and with a lot less hassle.

 

I want a Pantera.

By the way don't they have a chain driven cam? The only belts are the alternator-waterpump and A/C. Right?

 

I didn't say the engine itself was complex, nor did the SVT rep say that. What he's referring to is that mid-engined cars are MUCH MORE COMPLEX in terms of basic maintenance and repairs. That entire quote was in regards to the cost of repairs and maintenance. There are very few mid-engine cars that have engine accessability equal to front engine cars. As a result, working on them is MUCH harder because it is MUCH HARDER to access certain parts of the engine--parts like alternators, water pumps, belts, etc etc.

You specifically stated that "there is nothing complicated about a Pantera." Complexity refers to the numbers of steps that are required to complete a task. Eating an orange is more complex than eating an apple, because eating an orange requires an extra step: peeling it.

Nearly every aspect of a mid-engine vehcile's engine is more complex in regards to repair than a front-engine car is. Compare a 1972 Ford Mustang and a 1972 Pantera with identical 351Cs: which is more complex to repair? Extra steps are involved in nearly everything you'd plan to do to the Pantera. Hence, it is more comlpex.

I didn't mean to come off as a rude bastard, and I realize that I did. I apologize for that.

 

complex and a pain in the ass are two different things

 

I am a BIG fan of the original GT40. I think it is one of the classic designs than will never get old. The new GT is a great car from what I gather. However, I am gradually losing interest in ever getting one. I was considering trading my Viper GTS for one next yr. Although the Ford GT is a better car, I don't think it is twice as good (if it sells for its MRSP which is doesn't). Part of the problem is with production. Ford was quick to develop the car, too quick in fact. Models have been plagued by recalls and production seems to be at a snails pace given how many cars they said they would initially produce (4500-5000) over a 3 yr period. I'll bet they will be lucky if they can get 1/2 that amount. The Ford GT supposedly can't pass the new crash regulations for 2007. So...Ford can produce the car until the end of 2006 or about 22 more months. I believe a few months ago they made made only 450 or so over a 6 month production time. The hype for the car will certainly lessen, but it is possible that the car will end up being produced in such short numbers that getting one will be a hassle. Also, servicing at the Ford dealer likely will be a disadvantage. My viper has never been to the dealer since my delivery of the car. Doesn't matter as it is bulletproof reliable. Lastly, why pay $200K for a Ford GT, when the Z06 is right around the corner and may outperform it anyway.