Winter Project: Dry Sumping a WS 308

Peter
Yes, pressure in goes to stock pump and yes, we are going to run both pumps. I talked at some length with both QV (pump source) and Norwood (who supplied the bits) about running both and the pump speed. We believe it will work well.

DS pan is flat -- all protrutions have been machined off. Another Norwood part. The "scaffolding" on the stock piece has to be seen to be believed.
Philip

 

For the sharp eyed, I have to replace all the (new) stainless hardware. NBG.

 

Is it me or is this thing a bug*** to change?
The old seal did NOT want to come out. Another of those "while you are in there jobs".
Philip

 

Also while you are in there, change the bushing on the shift shaft (the one the external shifter fork bolts to) These go bad and slop up shifting. Project looks great.

 

From Tate Casey at CArobu. Work of art. Balanced to within 0.5 gms.
Note timing marks for both banks.
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We are using a 3 stage Pace pump (2 scavenge, 1 pressure section).

Mock up of mounting shown. Final position will be closer into engine. Bracket requires welding and pump to be bolted up and final shaping. Pump is Driven by Gilmer belt. Belt tension will be adjustable (mech to come). Drive pulley mounts to end of crank and keys to inner part of harmonic balancer. Fittings on outside of pump (outputs) will be 180s.

More to come when it is assembled.

Note, headers will be Jet Hot coated. We are just waiting for final pump placement before sending them out. Alternator is relocated. More to come on that too.

Philip
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That is truly impressive.

With the coated headers, will you still need to run the heat shields? I was thinking about doing this.

best
rt

 

Robert, I think they are ok. Useful thought and that's not to say there aren't 4 or 5 "while you are in there" mini-projects, Philip

 

It is a pretty piece, isn't it. Beautiful manufacturing quality. Will let you know how it performs. I have not weighed, but Tate indicates it will be about 60% of stock.

Russ, I will not be running the heat shields. If you pull your headers, there's 5 BHP (according to Tate) from port matching. Stock they are pretty bad.
Philip

 

How much lighter is it from stock and what is the cost of the flywheel if you dont mind me asking?

 

Weight:
The bathroom scales indicate the aluminum flywheel weighs 10lbs w/ring gear. I can only weigh the stock without the ring gear (they cut it off). It weighs 16.5 in this condition. I'd guess 17 to 17.5 w/ring gear.

MoI:
Real question is moment of inertia of the two pieces. There's a lot more steel further out with the stock piece. An engineer or someone with a better memory than me will recall the MoI formulae, but in general, more weight concentrated towards the outside means slower to rotate/slower to stop rotating.

Price:
I don't want to post the price Tate quoted publicly. Suggest you PM me or call him.

 

pma1010, your project is shaping up very nicely. There are not many guys who would tackle such a project let alone eliminating the air conditioning. Heres to altering the F-car for greater improvement.

Gary

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I believe we will be able to maintain the AC if desired. As I don't run it, (I use the car on the track) I'll leave the compressor off, but want the ability to hang it and run if desired. To achieve this, the belt runs and the placement of the DS pump needs to be quite precise.

I am hoping the combination of the lighter flywheel, dry sump, Russ/Kermit's airbox modification, revised jetting on top of the P6/44 DCNFs/revised springs et al leads to better cornering and snappier throttle response.
Philip

 

Replaced rear main seal this week. Much easier job than the front.

We are adding a pressure switch on the output from the pump so that if the belt breaks a warning light goes off. Alternative is a buzzer or something equally obnoxious. It can obviously be wired into an ignition cut or fuel cut but having this happen half way through a fast bend wouldn't be smart. Of course, this means plumbing a 1/8th NPT fitting on a T with 2 male AN-12 ends. Has to be custom made (along with much of this stuff).

Anyone pulled the aluminum cover shown as item #1 on TAV 4 of the 78 SPC? I'd like to replace the gasket but don't want to open a can of worms...
Philip

 

I have removed that plate during my rebuild. I don't remember any can-of-worms, just that it was quite difficult, because there's alot of surface area to that gasket, so it's really on there. Took forever to scrape off all the remaining gasket material on those parts.

 

You cannot remove windage tray without seperating engine from Tranny.

For Ceramic header coating I recomend Airborn Coatings: http://www.airborncoatings.com/customer/index3.html
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Peter, I'll pull that part off today and replace the gasket. Paul, I sent the headers off to Jet Hot a week ago. Thanks both.

Pic of pump drive pulley below. Keyed onto spacer block which in turn is spigotted into harmonic damper.

Philip
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It's a big spacer. Pulled it off. Cleaned it all up. Replaced the gasket and sealed it all up. This is definitely one of those "while you are in there" efforts but for the sake of 2 hours and $60 (price of gasket) you'd hate to have an oil leak that would cost a small fortune to repair if the motor was in the car and you dropped it off at a dealer.

Here's a "during" pic. You can see the oil pick ups and pressure inlet under the main bearing cradle.

Again, Peter, thanks for the encouragement.
Philip
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Yeah, no kidding.

Looks great!

 

Needs to be cleaned up. Belt is designed to clear AC. Tensions by moving pump down. Tensioner from cam cover to top of pump to be built.
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got excited there for a minute, thought it said "Dry humping...."

 

WOW, Philip!

That's amazing. Very impressive. Thank you for posting.

Does F-Chat have a "Best-of-theBest" Tech Archive?

 

Looks great!....but where are you going to put the blower drive pulley now ???

 

I am going to change the mounting hardware to a better grade of bolt. At that time I'll recheck the pulley alignment -- it is hard to get it exactly aligned given the length of belt run. I am going to mount a straight edge to the crank pulley (again) and use feeler gauges to check (again).

Thanks.

 

Mark et al,
While I have no plans for forced induction, fuel injection (Klugenfielder - sp? TWM conversion, Weber Alpha etc) might be interesting.

If anyone knows of any options bits available, please PM me.
Thanks
Philip