Hi flo cats

John, did you read this thread from last week?

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50796

Paul

 

I just bought some and will have them installed along with a quicksilver exhaust before the rampage, I will then give a seat of the pants review. but by all accounts I've heard they are better than oem and cheaper to boot. Perhaps ferrari should start sourcing their cats from hyperflow?

 

Why don't you do a before and after dyno?

 

I have them. Very good increase in torque. Sounds better too.

 

Maxwell doesn't have anything to do with Hyper-Flow (as far as I know) but dyno tests are so easy to rig and obviously Maxwell does not have a stellar (to say it mildly) reputation on these boards, so the dyno results mean squat to me. As far as I know nobody at F-Chat has installed them on a 360, I checked the archives as well. I have some time to decide before I take the CS out of storage, but if nobody steps up by then maybe I'll be the guinea pig! What I'd really like to see is a before and after independent dyno test from an F-Chatter. To me it's worth the money if it adds over 10hp and the improved sound would be just a bonus

 

maybe this is obvious, but i have to ask. if it were this simple to get another 10 to 30 HP then why doesn't ferrari provide higher flow cats? does ferrari have to meet some polution or noise restrictions that hyper-flow does not have to meet? it' shard to believe that hyper-flow can out-engineer ferrari. i'd love to grab some extra HP AND perhaps a little better exhaust sound as well. i want to be convinced that replacing the stock cats with hyper-flow cats is a good idea.

 

few random thoughts:

1) get ride of CAT, always add some hp. how many? i guess 8? 10? 15? will not be much more than that.

2) to bumboola, lots of ppl i know replace stock CAT with staright pipes, which is more aggressive than hyper flo CAT. maybe that's why you do not know anyone with hyper flo CAT because they do not want a CAT ar all.

3) to 720. not sure how hyper flo is, whether it will trigger check engine light or not. but straight piple(de-CAT) will, and it is not emission legal, thus ferrari can not do that in the 1st place.

 

that makes sense. thanks john. i am very interested in pursuing hyper-flow cats. i've been told that they also make the exhaust sound even better

 

Shouldn't power and torque graphs cross at 5252rpm?

Edited to say ignore that. The two axes are different scales. So they probably would if the same scale had been used.

 

Based on my research, the main cats do not affect cold starts. Modern Ferraris (360s from late 2000) are equipped with pre-cats integrated into the manifolds (at the collector of headers) to help reduce emissions during the cold starts and help heat up the main cats quickly. Once the main cats warm up there is effectively no need for the pre-cats and its associated air pump and plumbing. But because it stays in the flow it continues to restrict the exhaust flow and effectively reducing the hp output.

This maybe true as HiFlo can duplicate its design for a mix of make and model and get a better ROI than Ferrari who designs a cat to be used in one limited production car.

I doubt they out engineered Ferrari or its supplier, it’s just that they don’t have to go through the tyoe of compliance testing manufacturers go through to meet standard emissions so they can be more liberal with the design specs. Some of these aftermarket products do indicate for race use or off road use only. I wonder if HiFlo is one of them.

I may add that OEM cats for 360s cost about the same as Merc and BMW and probably many other cars. They are substantially costlier than aftermarket cats. For a price of one 360 cat you can buy 2 pairs of HiFlo cats...go figure.

 

The stock Ferrari cats are cheap ceramic units, not designed for performance applications. The line of thinking that Ferrari would not use them if they weren't the best is a little naive IMO. AMG, for one, specs high flow metal cats as standard on MB AMG series cars. Bottom line is that there is good power to be had replacing ceramic cats with 100 cell metal racing cats. The difference between a racing cat and a straight pipe is very little. I have done extensive dyno testing of this. In my experience there was no statistically valid difference between replacing the hi-po metal cat with a straight pipe.(10hp is a 1.5% variance on a 600hp motor which I do not consider a "measurable" difference.) Replacing a restrictive ceramic cat with a metal race cat or straight pipe can net anywehere between 2.5% and 8% power gain, depending on how restrictive the unit is.
I have no knowledge, or experience of the Hyperflo units, but an exhaust shop experienced in race applications should be able to spec units for less than Hyperflo, but the finish will not be anywhere near the same standard IMO.

 

I don't know what it is with 550 but I know for a fact my 360's cats are not ceramic susbtrate and are stainless steel.

 

Ferrari started with metallic cats for the F40 (we were told at the time they were the first in the world) and I was under the impression that all new cat designs since, (for Ferrari) were metallic as well but I could be wrong. In the case of the 360 those are metallic cats. With the extemps in that motor a ceramic wouldn't cut it.

One thing to consider before you knock Ferrari for the size and restriction of their cats. Auto makers have to stand behind the operation and effectiveness of their cats for 70-80k miles and 100k is just around the corner. I wonder with the reduced volumn of the Hyperfows if they could do that. Also as someone else pointed out, certification by CARB or EPA is much tougher than a smog check and Hyperflow does not have to worry about the worst car off the line still passing that test.

 

All I know is on the 355 the hyper flow cats on my car and a friend of mine's also in HK made a huge difference in torque and power. I can really feel it. Porsche 996TT owners who I drove with at the weekend kept asking me what I'd done to my car cos it was SO much faster than the other 355s. I was dead chuffed. All I have is the hyperflow cats from troy (who btw is completely straight up and VERY professional. he had the cats to me 2 days after i ordered them from him) and a capristo exhaust. when i had the tubi with the hyperflows it made much more noise. i mean REALLY loud. when i switched to the capristo the difference was incredible. instead of resonance and bass, it switched to a screaming sound and crackling noises. the videos i have posted on other threads give a good respresentation of what the hyperflow and capristo sound like. lastly, the hyperflows are a piece or art. very well constructed. i cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would order the OEM items over these, especially when the OEM item is of poor build quality and hugely expensive.

 

I'll have to take your word, as I don't know first hand. When you look at the end of the cat, does it look simialr to spiral wrapped corrugated cardboard? If so this is a hi po metal cat and there is very little to be gained replacing it, assuming it has sufficient cross section for the flow requirements of the motor.

 

Believe me they are and I have the official word from the compliance document that says they are high heat resistance steel substrate. Here's a picture.
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Yup, them's the good 'uns. Do you know the diameter of the intake of the unit (at the first weld before it is necked down to the exhaust pipe size) and the diameter if the main body of the unit? Unless these are too small, I can't see huge improvements out of swapping them. These aren't the same units that are run on the 550 and 355 from what I've been told though.

 

Exterior visual comparision:
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It's not what they look like that counts, it's how they flow.