Ferrari owner/racer Paul Frame off to jail...

That doesn't impress me at all. Write a big enough check and you too could have a picture of the president in your front yard. A bigger check and you can probably get a picture of him in your hot tub with your wife...

A picture of the president that does impress me is on the wall in my brother's home office. Him being awarded the PSM in the oval office by the president.

Everything else is just money...

 

Sorry for a few dumb questions after the fact, but:

What was the girlfriend's claim against Frame and particularly against his company?

What's the story with the bear suit?

It seems like Frame could have had the company fund a fair amount of what he stole under false pretenses given the following:

If the company was named as a defendant, and decided, through its own, independent counsel, to buy its way out of the lawsuit, it could have borne a considerable amount of the damages in its own right; I wouldn't have let Mr. Frame decide how to allocate that as between the defendants, but a co-defendant can bear more than its share in some instances.
Depending on the nature of the claim (ie, alleged sexual harassment and wrongful dismissal) if the ex-girlfriend was also an employee), it seems like the company might have also taken on some of the liability for Frame's activities. Again, i don't know enough facts to assess this, but simply presenting bogus invoices for payments seemed unnecessary. Indeed, to the extent the company was willing to loan him money as an advance, he could have gotten funding for this settlement, to the extent of his personal liability any number of ways, including through third party banks who would have undoubtedly done him a solid in return for possible later business. (Not saying that I condone it, but to my knowledge, it isn't illegal).
The funding of his racing activities seems appropriate if it is used to promote the business- the fact that the only races Frame participated in were not "public" events sounds odd. Even if by invitation, aren't other participants equally valued as prospects for advertising and promotion? Dunno the IRS rules on this, but i suspect he could have done this legally, without alot more trouble.
So, I don't know that this is really analogous to the Bernie Ebbers, Enron stuff. Illegal, yes, dumb, yes, but I guess my gut reaction, without the benefit of more facts, is that alot of what Frame did could have been accomplished legally, if he had done it correctly. Not that stupidity is a defense, but greed is not a crime, per se.

 

Dave 328,

It's funny that you mention Enron in your first post. Paul and Ken Rice of Enron Broadband drove for Risi at the same time in the Ferrari Challenge series.

Paul may have been "a snake with good social graces" (Sfumato), but at least he had good graces and knew when to use them. I was just a mechanic for a couple of races, but he (and all the drivers) made me feel welcome and appreciated.

Maybe I am just a starry-eyed blond, but I've never claimed to be anything more.

_____________________________________________

 

It's unfortunate to see people work themselves up into a position of comfortable wealth, only to blow it all away on greed and cosplay.

 

your brother does trump it

 

Yeah, but you should see the expressions on the faces of the Bubba and Judge's brother. That picture is just priceless!!!

_______________________________

 

I would love to see those that are guilty at Enron and their accounting firm and whoever else is guilty get very serious prison time, otherwise the rifoffs will not stop. These guys have hurt ALOT of people and, IMO, the entire US economy.

My sister was privy to the presecution of Frank Quattrone, who was guilty of illegally making $100M! She is a part of a white collar prosection team and told me that the white collar crimes she sees have continued UNABATTED, and she is continuing to develop cases against suspects! Until these guys start doing serious jail time, nothing's gonna stop it.

 

Sorry about all the typos. Too much caffeine + multitasking.

 

It's oh so easy to jump on the band wagon of..."3 squares and TV it too good for these guys" and "They've done so much harm to so many...RUINED so many lives..." etc... on and on.

What's so easy to overlook, and at the risk of being branded "taking up for crooks", is that these white collar guys have also, in many instances, CONTRIBUTED to the good lifestyles of the people's lives they've "ruined". If the lower/middle management 49 year old supervisors, making 150k/year with 900k in their 401k's, that they've "worked all they're lives for", that the enron guys destroyed, if they knew that blowing the whistle on their bosses illegal activities (just assuming for a moment that they knew of them), would they be the moral giants it would take to blow the whistle on them if they knew that blowing that whistle would take away their 150k/yr jobs and wipe out their 900k 401k's?

It's so easy to be judge and jury of guilty parties, when dumping on them doesn't affect any of your own fortunes.

I don't know this guy. But taking a man's life away from him for stealing a few $$$ and making a mistake...there's just got to be a better way, that's all I'm tryin' to say. I don't have a better solution, but the one we've got ain't all that beautiful.

 

That is the most asinine post I've read recently.
When you are an unemployed 49yo middle-manager with kids and a mortgage, feel free to run your mouth.
INTEGRITY...not claiming the 5th, owning screw-ups of subordinates as well as one's own.
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A FEW $$$? What's the difference between him and someone, unarmed, robbing a bank and getting away with millions in our deposits?
That person ruined his OWN life, no one did it to him. This behavior has to stop. Jail CAN do that. Fines WILL NOT do that. Fines are chicken**** money to these types. They could care less about a fine. They would care a lot about 10-15 years.
Do not have sympathy for these idiots. They are all grown-ups who know better. All they have to do to avoid having their, "...life taken away from them" is to NOT STEAL THE MONEY! They have a choice from the beginning. If they CHOOSE to steal they deserve it. Case closed.

 

Fact is, fortunes, savings and pension funds have been decimated, as a result of this type of fraud. Jobs and livelyhoods have been lost. Investor's confidence shattered.

Then by your logic, I could raise my son to be an outstanding member of society, murder him later on in life, and ask the jury to OVERLOOK the murder that I commited and take into consideration that I raised him right, and was a good father up until then.

You're right. Better ask Jeb to fire up Ol' Sparky!!

Your post is beyond assinine. Stealing, either with a gun or a pen is still stealing. You do the crime, you do the time.

 

Right. Send the white collar criminals to prison, and turn them into "normal" violent criminals, like everyone else.

Until our "correctional facilities" start getting serious about real rehabilitation, prisons are nothing more than society's waste basket. (And you've seen how much trouble cities are having, trying to find a place to dump all the trash that comes from all the city waste baskets.)

People dump their coffee grounds into the trash can without a thought to where it goes from there, and society is dumping everybody into prisons without a thought as to what happens then.

We need to recycle people, too. So what turns a criminal into a law abiding citizen? I don't have that answer, and there likely isn't a "one-size-fits-all" answer. (Some kinds of trash are easier to recyle than others.)

But if we don't start looking for the answers, then we might as well give up on making laws, as we make a whole society of lawbreakers.

 

But that raises a whole other recycling issue.

 

You can kill or maim someone for life physically or mentally, rape a woman or abuse a child and screw them up for life, and get a lot less hard time. We live in a society that values material goods more than anything else.

 

That's exactly why I asked. I get the impression that some crimminals are handed down shorter sentences for crimes far worse than this.

 

Depends where you live.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55778&highlight=road+rage

 

Ouch!!!!!

 

And, we wouldn't have Art and Parker floating around J/K.
OJ, the Clinton hummer, Bernie, Ken, et al...think of all the minutes we've lost listening to the news about this smegma. Thousands of wasted man-hours.
Let's waste thousands of theirs at their expense....

 

This whole thing is sad. Although I never met him, Frame was quite an inspiration to me as I read all about his cars and racing over the years. I love it when a car guy makes it bigtime, too bad about how this all came down.

I may be too naive, but this and the fact that I lost my a** in the Conseco scandal while Hilbert was using my invested money to buy busts of Napolean doesn't sour me on affluent businessmen. I owe my carreer to a few decent CEO's.

On the other hand, I drove a 79 Countach for awhile and know the guy driving it's old stablemate 79 Boxer now because a mega rich insurance guy needed just a little more, and the IRS wasn't amused. Maybe someone here will get a chance to own Frame's cars out of this too, him havig "taken one for the team"!

 

I know the man; and he is not guilty of theft

 

I guess you would, wouldn't you?