R Compound reccomendations for track use. | FerrariChat
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R Compound reccomendations for track use.

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by stephens, Apr 24, 2005.

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  1. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #1 stephens, Apr 24, 2005
    Anyone had experience using any of the folowing on the track?
    Pirelli P Zero Corsa
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
    Yokohama A048
    Toyo RA1
    Hoosier R3S04
    I'm lookng for a 265-275/35X18 for the front and 315-335/30X18 rear, DOT spec tyres suited to track days, which over here are predominantly 15 minute sessions an hour apart, causing a lot of heat cycling. The 550 is heavy and hard on tyres, the last set of Pirelli Corsa's still have tread left, but just don't grip any more, from heat cycling, I assume. I run fairly agressive alignment with 3 degree neg camber.
    I also want to get at least 6 track days (36 heat cycles) out of them with traction as close to a slick as possible, am I expecting too much?
     
  2. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #2 ferrarifixer, Apr 24, 2005
    Corsa are DEFINATELY faster than Cup, on Ferrari anyway. And Hoosier are faster than all of them.

    Of course... for a compromised road car you need to be able to drive if it rains.... And for this Corsa system are quite good, and are available in 19" FWIW. But System have too small blocks for decent track times.

    If it were me... Corsa thanks, and bring some Hoosiers in the boot of the other car!
     
  3. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #3 stephens, Apr 25, 2005
    Tyres are for track only, what are the Hoosiers like as far as heat cycling is concerned? Do you know anyone who has used them on anything as heavy as the 550?
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #4 ferrarifixer, Apr 25, 2005
    All R specs suffer from heat cycling!

    No data on 550 usage with Hoosier, but don't let that stop you!

    As always...how fast can you afford to go.......?
     
  5. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    #5 jakermc, Apr 25, 2005
    With lots of heat cycling, go for the Toyo RA-1. They can be heat cycled over and over without a degradation in performance. In fact, they just keep getting faster and faster until you cord them. You give up a little bit of time compared to the other stuff out there, but unless you are racing, who cares.
     
  6. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #6 stephens, Apr 25, 2005
    I've heard a lot of good things about the RA-1, does anyone have any idea how much slower they are, than the Pirelli Corsa's? They have a tread wear rating of 100 opposed to the 60 of the Pirelli, so am assuming they are not quite as sticky.
     
  7. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    #7 jakermc, Apr 25, 2005

    Treadware ratings can be very misleading since they are chosen by each manufacturer as opposed to an agreed upon guideline. As a result you can't compare one manufacturers rating to another. I believe the RA-1 use to have a rating around 50 or 60 but it was increased to 100 in the latest generation. Most people believe that they changined the rating since there are some racing leagues and auto-x leagues that require a minimum rating of 100. This allows them to sell tires to those competing in those leagues. Supposed to be the same tire as before.

    On a course like MSR, a tight 1.7 mile track, I've heard you give up 1 second or so on a 1:25 lap. On a light car like my 911, they last forever. Worth every second I give up.
     
  8. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #8 stephens, Aug 6, 2005
    I thought I'd give an update foranyone interested in tracking their cars since I have now tried all ofthe tyre myselfthat I was originally asking about aside from the Yokohama.

    The Toyo RA1 is a great tyre if you are looking for long life and consistency, but not worried about outright grip. The Toy was the slowest of all the tyres I used, even after having them buffed down to min tread depth as recommended by Toyo for max performance. In fact the tyre was not much quicker than my Michelin Pilot Sport 2 street tyres in unbuffed state. My lap times dropped 3 secs a lap after buffing.
    best time unbuffed 1:56, buffed 1:53.

    Pirelli Corsa. Much better grip than RA1, much stiffer sidewalls, well suited to a heavy car like the 550. Best laptime 1:52, but this was on a well worn tyre that had done around 1/2 dozen track days previously and ended up doing 1:56's two sessions later as it had clearly gone off.

    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. I tried these on my wifes '04 M3, not the 550, so do not have directly comparable laptimes, however they were extremely twitchy and don't have sidewalls anywhere as stiff as the Corsa's. Running recommended pressures, I rolled the front tyre to the top of the Michelin writing (almost halfway down the sidewall). They also need a coupleoflapstowarmup properly and cold grip is abysmal. Best time at same circuit in the M3 was 1:56 and frankly the scariest lap I have done in any car.

    Hoosier R3S04
    What can I say? FU*KING AWESOME!!!!!!!! best time 1:50 - so far - limited by driver courage and ability. Very stiff sidewall, suited to heavy cars, awesome traction, very quick warm up.
     
  9. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #9 enjoythemusic, Aug 6, 2005
    Amen.... amen.
     
  10. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

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    #10 riverflyer, Aug 6, 2005
    Great post, I admire your approach and really getting out there and trying all the available tires. I agree about the MC's as not being suited to a heavier ride. They work well on my 2800lb pcar, but have poor tread life. I am going to try the hoosiers next as well, thanks.
     
  11. ferrarilou

    ferrarilou Formula Junior

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    #11 ferrarilou, Aug 6, 2005
    I was personally leaning toward Kumho V710s for a 360 fitment with (non-OEM) 9in wheels in front and 11in wheels in rear. That would be 245/35-18 and 315/35-18, respectively. I have not purchased the wheels nor the tires yet, though I've been happy with Kumho Victoracers on my prior car. In both cases the cars are lighter than yours. Sorry, haven't had the pleasure of trying a 550 yet.
     
  12. pad

    pad Formula 3

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    #12 pad, Aug 6, 2005
    Just ran the Kumho V710 at Lime Rock on my 308 QV - 225/50/16 on front, 265/45/16 on rear. Wheels are 8 and 9 inch respectively. Very pleased with the tires - car went where ever it was pointed and very predicable. Of course, there is a big weight difference between 308 and 550.
     
  13. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

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    #13 cwwhk, Aug 7, 2005
    Phil:

    What's your take on both Michelin and Hoosier's recommendation to heat cycle once their tires for best performance and durability? I can kind of see how this might improve durability as the rubber will set thus resist wear, but I can't see how this will improve grip.

    It's really a pain in the butt to brings these tires to temperature and then let cool down 24 hours before race use.
     
  14. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #14 ferrarifixer, Aug 7, 2005
    screw durability

    I want speed.

    Use them green and cold in qualifying, and keep using them any way you like!
     
  15. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

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    #15 cwwhk, Aug 7, 2005
    OK I'll try the Hoosiers both with and without heat cycle and see which way is faster. I suspect green tires will be faster for qualifying, but will taper off after 6 or 7 laps. Heat cycled will probably be slightly slower but hold up better during later stages of a race.

    I will try to do some quantitative testing before the race end of this month.
     

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