Ferrari also made a bunch of 2+2's over the years and have a pretty good idea of how to design one. How many modern Bentley 2+2's have they made? You show me the underpinnings are the same and I'll show you how to eat crow. Otherwise, enjoy the hurt locker! Sunny
After losing E5.4 million in 2003, Lamborghini showed a E4.1 million operating profit on sales of E243 million last year. That was the carmakers first positive result since Audi bought it in 1998. Audi has never disclosed how much it paid when it bought Lamborghini from a group of Indonesian and Malaysian investors. Audi will only say that it has invested E350 million since the acquisition in research & development and capital expenditure. Production surge Before Audi took over Lamborghini it was producing less than a unit a day. The pre-Audi volume was 209 units of the Diablo in 220 working days. Now daily production is 7.5 units a day. Lamborghini plans to sell 1,600 cars this year, matching the 2004 total. Sales are expected to reach 2,000 units next year due to the addition of the Gallardo Spyder, which will retail for about E167,000. The convertible debuts in September at the Frankfurt auto show.
Lamborghini will increase its global dealer network to 80 from 67 this year. Last month it opened its first dealership in Kuala Lumpur and will add five dealers in the US, taking the total to 25.
The business case for the Gallardo makes sense and is proving to be very successful as the above information confirms. It's a great car, they sell every one they produce, and more and more are being produced annually. Include the reported plans to share the platform with a rear-engine Audi and it will make even more sense. Those who purchased the car at a premium to MSRP are seeing disproportional high depreciation two years later as production ramped up and supply met pent-up demand. For anyone who purchased the car at MSRP, depreciation is in fact better than average. At one time I also questioned my dealer as to why they had six Gallardo´s on the showroom floor and his response was "because we wont sell them at sticker". You will wait in line to purchase a F430 at something close to MSRP but if you just gotta have one several are currently for sale around $275,000. Buy It Now and in < three years you will have a car worth $150,000. Like the Gallardo, lousy depreciation from the demand driven premium + MSRP but excellent from the actual MSRP and when they begin cranking them out (like the 360) supply will meet demand much closer to MSRP. Not unlike the Gallardo. I also feel that the 4,500 Ford GTs that will have been produced two years from now will also have an effect on the entire USA resale market. Ford is only now cranking them out (after all the fixes) and prices are beginning to drop. I understand one just sold below $200,000 on eBay. If you want to discuss accelerated depreciation have a look at the 360 or look most closely at the 575. And take note of this thread two years from now... when the people currently paying $275,000+ for the 612 are driving cars worth $165,000. If that.
why all the 612 bashing, it truly is a masterpiece in real life where all the curves come out and looks far more stylish than the bloated Bentley even though it is the larger car. The demand for the 612 has been rising, people are starting to appreciate it, and just look at that interior. The gallardo is a fantastic car, its just that lambo dosnt have the same religious following the ferrari does. now that the 430 has stepped up the game,lambo will still sell gallardos cuz they appeal to different buyers.
350 million @ (pick an interest rate VAG's is approx 5%) is 17.5 million euro per year. Lambo's OPERATING profit, WHICH EXCLUDES INTEREST on Audi's investment and non disclosed purchase price which would raise the amount of annual interest they have to pay, was 4.1E. Audi thus LOST more than 13.4 million E on Lambo last year and recouped NONE of their principal investment, 350 Million plus purchase price Euro's.
For some reason I feel that the G car is for the wife and the M is for me. This may turn off buyers if they also feel this way. Where as the 360 is for me and so is the 430. All F cars seem to be guy cars. The bently is loved by both men and women. The 612 is a guy car. I think the G is a good car and it sounds terrific with aftermarket exhsaust but it is not special. I think the sales are due to the overflow of guys not being able to get an F car now in many cases. It just push you over the edge to buy it. Maybe a used one in a year or two for a good price.
I think you have it backwards. If a company can build a better car based on a Phaeton than Ferrari can on a clean sheet of paper, I'd say that makes Ferrari look pretty silly.
I find it amusing Lambo owners like Clax claim Ferrrari has this big marketing machine and the owners are all fools that fall into line to purchase them.While Lambo owners are "in the know" and so much more sophisticated. Ferrari wins races, alot of them, they always have, people like to be associated with a winner like any sports franchise which is why they sell so much brand merchandise, if thats a marketing machine then so be it because it works well, most auto companies know this is a good formula to sell cars since the invention of the auto, Lamborghini never understood this which is why they don't get much respect other than viewed as a rich mans toy and status symbol.Lambos have never been hot sellers, I don't know of any Lambo that has ever had a waiting list or sold much over MSRP not to mention the resale of them drops like a rock. When you get into the price range of a new G buyers are not primarily looking for performance stats, face it a Z06 or Viper does all this almost as well for much less money, the decison is an emotional one and it comes down to what the car portrays and Lamborghini always has had quite a different image than Ferrari which appeals to a different buyer. Right now expensive exotic cars are hot, people have the money for them and want to spend it which is why you have the lists for the 360 and now 430 while the G still is not selling well, that indicates alot. A lot of buyers of Gs are frustrated 360 and 430 buyers, if that pool dries up the G cars will stagnate even further on dealer showrooms, I wouldn't be suprised if Lambo drops the G and Audi dumps Lambo.
The Gallardo will be the best-selling model ever for Lamborghini. As the entry level car, buyers that are happy with their overall experience will move up to higher Lambos instead of other exotics. Low maintenance costs and good reliability will help them in the long run to change the ticking time bomb reputation they have had in the past. It is ironic that VW/Audi/Lambo, a company which does not compete in F1, introduced the V10 on a production car before Ferrari. If the Gallardo was introduced by Ferrari instead of Lambo, everyone would be babbling about Formula One DNA in the engine, race heritage, blah blah. It is just an incredible car, and will always have an audience.
It's amazing that you cant seem to pull off one post without mentioning track results or without clearly demonstrating how unbelievably clueless you are about... well just about everything. It's people like you who make Lamborghini owners appear so sophisticated. You're right though. Because Ferrari has enjoyed success on the track the Gallardo is surely a waste of time and expense. How can everyone not see that??!!
I see we are going to have a fun time with this. Are we resting on racing laurels again ? Does the average Ferrari buyer, care about racing ? Does the average Ferrari buyer race his car ? At the club meets, most people are only interested in showing up for the breakfast. A significant portion of the drivers / owners are older men. They have demonstrated a lack of interest in driving fast. If anything, the Ferrari GT cars, show a trend towards more user friendly features. The racing mystique appears to be going away. Unfortunately "everyone" is making the cars more user friendly. You now have mass production, increased ride height, superb stereos, sound suppresion material, increased roomy interiors, increased exterior bulk, power steering, increased production weight, and general watered down refinement. Of course all of the marques suffer from this issue. I find it difficult for you to equate a F-1 racing program, to what is being sold in the showroom. Trickle down effect ? Hardly. As far as Lamborghini rock in the pool effect ? I think the Countach and Diablo have held their own quite well. Actually the Countach has done "much" better than the Testarossa. The Diablo ? The Diablo 6.0 has also done much better than the 550 and 575M. The 2001 6.0 is trading just under 200k for a vehicle with "very" low miles. How is the 2001 550 Maranello with "very" low miles doing in todays market ? It is probably a fairly close market value, when comparing the early Diablo's to the 512TR. The Boxer ? That is also priced the same, as the parallel model year Countach. I am not very familiar with the Murcielago market. I think the value is similar to the 575M ? A 02 Murcielago is priced approximately 200K, for a car with 5,000 miles. I do not know what a 02 575M will bring with 5K miles. - Buyers reservations with buying Lamborghini ? I think this has to do with the companies stability, and lack of a dealer network. As I have mentioned on other previous posts, this also has to do with unfortunate bad luck. Quite a few problems had to do with changing EPA/DOT requirements, worldwide recession, and just plain bad luck. Lamborghini was not the only marque to suffer through these hard times. Quite a few independent marques lost market share, and a few closed down operations. The other problem is the lack of a dealer network. It does take time to work on the dealer network issue. A buyer may have issues, with the location to service their car. You don't want to just dump a whole bunch of dealers into the market, who have no long term goals. This problem will take time to correct. Most buyers are not enthusiasts. They will NOT make sacrifices to have their car serviced.
I, too, find the 'big marketing machine' comments amusing. But, hey, everyone has their own way of justifying their decisions/preferences...either to others...or to themselves.
You must own quite a collection of Air Jordans, Nike Tiger Woods accessories, Jeff Gordon hats, and Wayne Gretzky skates. And, as someone said here earlier, Ferrari is becoming like Rolex. Too much exposure and too much merchandise. When you see Ferrari cologne on the shelf at Sears, then you gotta shake your head. For the guy who can't afford a Ferrari, it may be cool, but for the guy who can, that's pure cheese. Selling for over MSRP is a fools game. End of story. Anybody willing to spend a dime more than MSRP needs their head examined. That's just people with nothing more than their ego to serve, who want to be the cool kid on the block. I suppose it is the insecurity of having to be associated with "a winner" (as you put it) that fuels this. You act like Lambo owners buy the cars for "flash" or "dazzle". Why would someone pay over MSRP? Hmmm. I wonder. They are? Which planet are you living on? Because on this planet, the market is soft for exotics. Too many cars, not enough buyers. Except for Ferrari Man, of course. He's always hot to buy the latest car with the Scuderia Shields on it. Your auto industry insight is incredibly lacking. Anybody who reads this post will realize that in about 3 seconds.
Ferrari cologne is available in Sears ? Whoa. That is unfortunate. You better not bring the guurl from the pool to Sears.
Guys just ignore Blowfield - he's full of hot air (no pun intended) and totally and utterly clueless. Blowfield - you still have some unfinished business over on this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59349 ....you seem to have a habit of talking cr@p then disappearing when you are called out!
Called out by whom? I gave up on that thread, why waste my time with expert wannabee Civic drivers like yourself, XBox racing champions and boys going through the trauma of puberty with posters on their wall.
Good point. Blowjawb's credibility record: 1) Says a 360 can whip any Lambo on the track 2) Says that Nurburgring is not a benchmark track Sure thing.
Called out by me. Go back and look at it. You think a 360 can beat a G or M around a track? I am willing to let you prove it.
Name the amount, and the terms. Terms will be difficult to determine, since you may be able to find a car that has 30,000 hard miles on it for that amount. I hardly would consider that a market representation.
