Coulthard says Ferrari at Fault

Michelin and all the Michelin teams wanted a race for no points (biggest penalty of all), but would allow the Bridgestone teams to have points. The FIA just wouldn't allow it.

I think Michelin said the new flown in tires were still unsafe not becuase data showed it, but because there was no data on the new tires.

 

Other than from DC where is said that they were willing to do this? I have not seen any official notice of this proposal. Plus if that is the case why not just drive through the pit lane and let the bridgestone runners go ahead.

Maybe so. But the FIA noted they could use them and incur a penalty...

 

You never read the article about putting in a chicane and Michelin teams won't get points from the race, but Bridgestone cars do???

 

I read the article and it seems to me that DC is stating what could have been a option. If you read the reports from Michelin's website, Formula 1.com, etc. this is never mentioned only in the interview with DC have I seen this as an option. The letters from C.Whitting never mention this as a request only that Michelin wanted a chicane, and the FIA would not sanction the race with a chicane. A quote from DC does not mean that Michelin ever proposed giving the Bridgestone runners any points, if so why not just change to the 'flown in tires", or drive through the pit lane, or go slower, or change tires all would have given the same result and a less offensive outcome.

 

FIA, stressing the need for rules to be adhered to, said in a statement on Monday: "Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate by clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess.

"However the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane. The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down.

"The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One."

FIA said the behaviour by tyre-makers Michelin and the teams using their tyres had damaged the sport.

"What about American fans? What about Formula One fans worldwide? Rather than boycott the race, the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13.

"The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport."

 

It wasn't meant that way. It is a way to decrease the money spent during the championship.
And since Ferrari, can and does spent more than any other team.
They were keep going better and better, so now whith this rules, they are trying to make more easy to the other teams.
The same way the aero new rules. Ferrari had the more advanced car, and all other were trying to copy them. so they so another advantage there, and change the rules to mess with them.
that's how they are trying to affect Ferrari

 

Please read this. I hope you change your mind after reading it. and regret of all what you have said.

FROM F1.COM

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances"(see correspondence attached).

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF MICHELIN IN INDIANAPOLIS AND THE FIA FORMULA ONE RACE DIRECTOR
19.06.2005

Letter from Representatives of Michelin to Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director:

Saturday June 18 2005
Indianapolis

Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director and Safety delegate

Dear Mr Whiting

Having analysed and fully evaluated the tyre failures that have occurred over the Indianapolis Grand Prix practice sessions we have been unable to identify a root cause.

The current rules and timescale do not permit the use of an alternative tyre solution and the race must be performed with the qualifying tyres.

Michelin has in the sole interest of safety informed its partner teams that we do not have total assurance that all tyres that qualified the cars can be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 can be reduced.

Michelin very much regrets this situation, but has taken this decision after careful consideration and in the best interests of safety at the event.

We trust that the FIA can understand our position and we remain at your disposal if you want any further information.

Pierre Dupasquier
Michelin Motorsport Director

Nick Shorrock
Director of Michelin F1 activities

Cc:
Bernie Ecclestone
Michelin teams
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)


Letter from Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director, in reply to above letter from Representatives of Michelin:

19 June, 2005

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

We have received your letter of 18 June.

We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director

PLease read the final point. What ever Ferrari said had NOTHING to do with what happened. Ferrari isn't responsible of nothing in any way.
and FIA rule over anything over any team incluiding ferrari. all the 10 teams could agree on the chicane and still FIA doesn't permit it.

COULD YOU SHOW ME A DOCUMENT, OR ANYTHING WHERE YOU CAN PROVE THAT FERRARI NEGLECTED TO THE CHICANE??

I think all that is BS said to distract the attention of the real problem and make people like you think is Ferrari fault.

 

i dunno, formula 1 is getting boring to watch. they need to limit aerodynamics, and increas mechanical grip. they should also switch over to v8s to limit power and increase competition. these are reason why f1 hasnt been as well recieved in the us as other parts of the world. americans crave competition, not a race where cars just drive around a track and rarely ever pass each other. they should limit it so that the teams like ferrari cant dump huge amounts of money other teams dont have into thier development...

 

If anything Ferrari did understand sporting concepts. It was the other teams and Michelin who didn't. Ferrari was man enough to get out there and race. Why is Ferrari to blame for not putting in the chicane? The FIA clearly stated they were against because of safety and Michelin breaking the rules. The FIA should not accomodate Michelin for breaking the rules. I am actually quite surprised the FIA were willing to comprise. Ferrari did their homework and followed the rules. Why should Ferrari agree to putting a chicane in for Michelin mistakes? As for the fans, the one thing the bothers me is how F1, FIA and Michelin new about this from Friday practice. How come they didn't inform the fans from the very beginning? If you want to speak about sport concepts, its screwed up that the fans only new when all Michelin teams pulled in during the warm-up lap. Thats B.S. You should take back what you said.

 

Why didn't the Michelin teams accept Charlie Whitting's proposals? They decided that it would be their solution (chicane) or they won't race. The reason they pushed for the chicane was because it would also slow down the bridgestone teams who have no fault in this. Now that's not very sporting isn't it. Everybody loves to bash Ferrari, sometimes rightfully so. Make no mistake, the Michelin teams? They're no angels! Each team has it's own agenda, and thats what they follow.

 

like ron dennis would not have raced if the shoe was on the other foot. I think all this tire stuff is insane, go back to slicks get rid of the wings, make them shift gears, no cell phones

 

Yes. The rear tires were estimated good for either 8 (eight) or 10 (ten) laps, depending on which Michelin engineer you asked and all of them said catastrophic tire failure could happen any time.

Michelin was right to pull out of the race. Noone wants another Senna crash.

 

If the tires where so unsafe, way did they want to run with a different track configuration??

Why wouldn't the engineers change their set up reduce tire wear?

Why say that they are unsafe but if you do this it will be safe?

It was all a power play by MICHELIN and their teams. We all loss.

People keep call for this new group to start their own F1 ran by MANUFACTURES. What will happen if something like this comes about again?

Will the rules be changed to help that MANUFACTURE with the problem?

 

"(On why chicane was not built): “I can’t answer that.... ...Ferrari...."

Yup, typical.

He is very good at blaming the FIA but not so good at explaining why the Michelin teams refused to accept the FIA suggest to limit speed under the risk of penalty.

 

Ferrari was Not at fault. They came to Indy, Prepared. Dont penalize them. If the competition was not ready too compete, then so be it. If this was a football game and the opponent didnt practice or work out their gameplan, why should the home team be penalized. The michelin teams should have reaced to the best of their ability on that day, taken the lose and moved on ( slowed down in turn 13) I loved the race. I thought it was the greatest picture to see the 6 cars on the grid. I want to get that shot and blow it up to poster size to hang on the wall

 

There was a huge problem for the fans on Sunday morning.

Ferrari had a choice to help or say "we don't care about the fans".

I bet if all the teams and the FIA wanted.. they could have fixed this for the fans

F1 is not a great orgainzatgion. In a great orgainization all the players would have come together to help the fans (Who in the end are the ones that pay for F1)

 

As a team owner you can tell this to your driver.... but a drive will push and push and at some point might crash and die. You sent him out on faulty tires and this is the USA... can you say jail time for the team?

Or if they do all slow down in turn 13, what happens when MS crashes into some of them.... (like he did to his own team-mate on a empty track)?

 

No. They. Did. Not.

There is not even proof that the option was presented to Ferrari, and even then, the choice was not up to them. It has been said over and over again, that a sporting contests must operate under clear rules. The ruling the FIA made was exactly the one they should have made. Should they change the course because a team brought a wing that didn't provide enough downforce? As painful as it was sitting on the berm watching a parade, it was better than the charade it would have been changing the rules.

What part of this do you not understand?

 

WHY DID MICHELIN REFUSE TO COMPLY WITH EITHER OF THESE 2 OPTIONS?

The chacain would have penalized B'stone, and to run the race without points for the Michelin teams would have been just as much of a farce as what we saw on Sunday. Either of the FIAs options would have allowed for a fair contest with 20 cars on the track.

 

Do you really think having slow cars through turn 13 would be safe? Even off the racing line, at those speeds it would be dangerous. What about the racing instincts of the driver?

Pitting the cars would be insane, but maybe feasible. I doubt they had enough tires for that though.

 

I totally agree!!

You and I are the only ones on the planet who actually liked the race. There's more to Formula 1 than just the race. Look how much drama and attention has been created due to this situation. I thought the race was extremely interesting to watch. I was thoroughly entertained from start to this minute right now. Everyone is talking about this!!

IT'S AMAZING!!! IT'S GREAT!!

 

It happens every weekend at any endurance race with up to 5 classes running at the same time. Minardi has been pulling over to let the leaders by since they joined the sport. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, they could have handled it. The FIA offered to monitor the speeds in turn 13 and penalize drivers for excess. After the first stop and go penalty for speeding in turn 13, the other drivers would have figured out a way to contain their 'racing instincts'. they have blue flags for a reason.

 

I love it how the primary argument against Ferrari is that we should encourage people to be stupid. Yes, reward the morons at Michelin and the 7 teams. That's a great idea. Oh, it's alright that you screwed up, let me wipe the tears from your eyes. Boohoo for the fans or not, encouraging people to have their head up their ass is never a good thing in the long run.

Am I the only one that thinks there should be consequences for being stupid and/or making a stupid decision? And on top of that, then those 7 teams tool out like little girls. Encourage that too while we're at it.

So, basically, we should reward people for poor performance in the workplace, and then additionally for having no balls. I wish we could have Fangio or Nuvolari reading this stuff, or better yet, Patton.

 

So you've got 6 cars passing 14 other cars? And this isn't endurance racing. In a 12 hour race you can stop to change the power steering system, and still be at the front.

Come on, make a logical argument.

 

That was only one of three arguments, but I know they are not the same. But what does stopping to change power steering have to do with passing a much slower car on a banked curve? Last time I watched an endurance race there were maybe 4-5 cars in the top prototype class and maybe 30 other cars that were not on the lead lap and most were GT class Porsches. It seems that Indy would be a little easier than that situation, especially with a yellow flag, a blue flag and the Michelin cars moving off the racing line to slow through the corner. Or they could have just used the flown in tires and accepted the penalty after the race.