Merged: Who would bid on this car??/The only '82 328

It's back....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6212&item=4559246346&rd=1

 

Something is still not right. The inside is an 80 model. I realize that the picture shows a VIN plate with Sept 81 but absolutely no 308 ever left the factory in 1981 with the oil temp and clock on top of each other. Not a single one. That was only one year -1980-.

 

Also the GTS was GTSi inside by Sept 81 too. That's an 80 with an 82 VIN plate OR different pictures of two different cars. Something is totally not right with this. Scam.

 

Doc,'

This is one of the reasons I hang out here. Knowledge is power. Nice job. Dane

 

I received another response. He insists it's a 1982. This is the VIN plate photo on the auction. It looks as if eBay doesn't care.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Get him to send you a picture of the VIN where it is stamped in the chassis in the engine area by the airbox.

If that is 82 also, then this car has one big-daddy interesting history to tell. The inside was not just recovered, it was REPLACED and with a different part from another year car. Why would someone throw away the original instrument holder and source another - obviously used - part AND why was someone having to do that? At least the part with the clock and oil temp was and that is absolutely for sure. So was the fuse panel cover.

 

ZFFAAO2AC0039083
Z ferrari
FF Ferrari SpA
A = 308 2-valve injected (U.S.A. model)
A = 3-point inertia belts for front
02 = 308 GTBi
A = Left-Hand drive vehicle for the U.S.A. market
C = 1982
0 = produced in Maranello, Italy

 

Thanks, Jon. That is for sure an 82 VIN plate. I am curious if the same VIN # is stamped in the chassis. Someone can R&R the door jamb plate but you can't change that chassis stamp so easily - AND if they somehow can, we here at FChat now know another little number we can peek at on the other side that FEW folks know about!

I am VERY curious about this 308

 

Thanks as well, Jon. It is now an international effort.

Dr. C,

I wrote Kessler querying a photo of the engine stamp.

Now I am curious, though. Were all VINs with the "02" GTBi's and GTSi's? This link only shows "02's" as GTBi's and does not mention GTSi's.

http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/vin.html

 

The VIN information at:

http://www.red-headed.com/index2.html (click "articles" on the left and then "decoding the VIN" at the bottom)

says "02" is a GTSi...

 

Thank you for pointing this out. Which am I to believe?!? Further research looks to be the next logical approach, at least for my piece of mind. Dane

 

Can't help you with that, but if that's the '81-'82 US OM 216/81 in the Seller's ad, you might point out to the Seller that the clock/gauge set-up doesn't match what's shown in that 216/81 OM on page 36 as the others mentioned. A couple of other small interior nits are that the levers for the heater, vent, and choke controls seem too long (maybe units from another closely-related Italian marque?) and the cigarette lighter is certainly not stock.

 

The levers look ok to me. The cig lighter is actually correct for the 2V inj. cars. The 4V and carbed car's lighters are different from each other and both are different from the 2v's.

The one Ferrari used for the 2V inj cars is out of a Fiat X1/9

Like the clock and oil temp assembly, the rear defog is from a 80 model as well.

No matter how you slice it this car is a 1980 model on the inside. I do not care what the sellers say. I want to see that chassis VIN stamping, assembly stamping number and go from there.

The dealer may not have any idea about all of this. How would he know? The assembly # may be the giveaway for it since so few folks know about it. IF (and mean IF) this car has had the VIN stamps and plate swapped out, I doubt the guy doing it thought to fix that little number too. The car has been repainted for sure. Therefore the assembly number has most likely been sprayed over in black during the process and hidden well.

 

I questioned if the vin #'s matched as the interior is 1980; it may be a stolen car. The first reply:


Ken..I'm a authorized Ferrari dealer, i bought this car new from Ferrari NA..you don't have a clue as to what your talking about-contact Ferrari NA with your beef's..mgnt

And also got:

and why do you care anyway..are you interested in buying ,or are
you just interested in showing how much you don't know!!!!

I replied with, "So you're saying it's NOT a 1980 interior?"

We'll see what comes back but if anyone wants this car I suggest you be sure it's NOT stolen!

Ken

 

Ken,

I received the same type of responses. "Grow up!!!" and the like. Kessler even asked if I was locked in a closet with some books while others were out playing! I got a chuckle out of that one.

Well, it certainly helps having this site and some of it's members as references. Still, I offered to send "Original Ferrari V8" as a starter. Then, again, Kessler is the expert with 30 years of experience....Tongue removed from cheek.

You would think Kessler would want to correct his mistakes. It's difficult to do if the advertisement's a scam, though.

Dane

 

His reply:


"i know this car from NEW of you have a problem with the type of interior-or vin plate-or what ever-take it up with FERRARI NA!are you a buyer or just surf the ebay site looking for something to do"

So, he never answered if the interior is 1980 and never said if the vin #'s matched. I replied that yes, I am interested in a 308 but since you didn't answer either question I am too afraid to persue this car.

Ken

 

That's nothing! I knew it when it was a 1982, six-speed, 328 GTS! She's now on her third make-over. "A Wise Choice."

 

My bad on the cigarette lighter (should have known it was more likely for the illustration in the OM to be wrong), but if those are the stock levers I still reserve the right to declare "ugly".

Why does anyone care what the Seller thinks or doesn't think? IMO, the only issue is for the Buyer to determine what $ value the car is to him/her.

 

I believe the seller is hiding something because he has been acting very unprofessional and NOT answering specific questions.

There is something MAJOR fishy with that car. The guy selling it may or may not be in on it. Either way he should answer questions to someone who may be handing over 30K.

By the way Mr. car dealer, if you are reading this, I - Tommy Cosgrove - am the gut who sat in his closet and read that book. YOU are the one who doesn't have a clue as to what is being talked about. The VIN plate and the inside of that car DO NOT GO TOGETHER. Period.

 

Agree with all you've said, but I'd still say that there's no reason to try to make the Seller into a "confidant" in your inner circle deciding whether or not to buy the car.

As of now, I'd say $20K would be a fair enough offer for any Buyer to make to accept the present uncertainty/fishyness

 

The dealer is Steven Kessler. Yikes!!!

I wouldn't buy a key chain from that guy. When he was in NY, he was advertising a 308gt4 with 17,000 original miles. Over the phone they said it was perfect. I came in and it was obviously an old, haggard car. The miles said 17K...but it easily had 117K on it. The pedal covers were warn to nothing, there were dents on every panel and to top it off it wouldn't start or run..............but for a $5K deposit they would "make it run"!!! That was my first AND last visit to Kessler..........funny FNA yanked their franchise.....Hmmmm?

Buyer beware of Steve Kessler!!!

 

Hi Steve,

I hope I don't come off as a jerk because, believe me, that's not my goal! I am just trying to understand. I kept a clear conscience with my posts by knowing F-Chat.com's a public site or at least the non-subscribed sections. Anyone, including Kessler, can take a look at this thread on an extremely reputable, public forum. Plus, someone interested in this car just may drop by here, type in a search and find this thread. I know I have done the like with previous purchases and it's been of great value.

I am not saying I'm perfect. Just explaining my point of view. I reserve the balance of my time. Dane

 

Dane -- I've no problems with your comments. I think we all agree that a Seller who isn't respectful to legitmate questions/concerns from potential Buyers and isn't concerned about having an accurate advertisement is not the best (and just generally rubs all of us the wrong way).

But, I always like to think that every F, regardless of its short-comings, has a "fair" price. I have to admit that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the $ appreciation that seems to have hit the 328 and 308 markets lately. My first thought was that the best 308i in the US with ~50K miles and 14" wheels was/is a $25K car, and this one is $20K with the open questions. I'd wager $100 that T. Rutlands would buy it for $15K sight unseen -- what's your I'd-buy-it price for this beauty as-is + the questions?

 

First of all, cool.

My buy-it-now from Kessler? Zero. Nada. Zilch. I wouldn't pay a cent to buy this car from that guy.

Now, from a guy like Peter Sweeney who represents a car fairly, I'd consider it. However, I can't give you an amount until I actually knew what the heck it was! Sweeney would give me the facts and I'd go from there.

 

So no one has heard from this guy again since he got cought with his pants down over his 1982/1980 328?