Take a look in any book on Aerodynamics. The term "ground effect" is effect that the ground iduces to the free air aerodynamic characteristics of a body moving thru the air. This is what allows swans and other heavy birds to fly aircraft to become airborne and for a car to produce lift or down force while going down the track. Even if a race car had a true flat bottom from the nose to the tail with no diffuser once the air exits out from under the car it will meet up with the slower moving air on the upper body and create a vacume at the rear of the car it wont be much but it will be there no add a difusser to the rear of the can and now we have an inverted airfoil section and we increase the down force of the vehicle with out a heavy drag penalty. Ground effect tunnels are doing nothing more than expanding on the effect. Current F1 cars are running in ground effect in fact you personal car is running ground effect also. if you dont believe me run it WFO down the highway and spin it 180 and see how quick the rear of the car gets light on yourself. The reason it did this is the car went from a inverted airfoil to a standard airfoil. and went from ground effect down force to ground effect lift.
Yes, that's all true. It just comes down to how much ground effects and how sensitive to distance from the ground they are. Something that changes say 10% per inch from the ground is perfectly safe, I think that is about where the front wing is. But if it changes 90% per 0.2 inch, it probably doesn't belong on a race car and that is about where the old diffuser side pods were. I'm just looking for some common sense stuff in the rules. There will always be ground effects and down force, but IMO the rules should be setup so the cars are forgiving and can race in close proximity to each other.
Downforce cut "approximately 10%"!? By "cleaning up" barge boards, flip ups, and winglets the desire to drive quiclkly will hardly exist. With THIS lack of downforce, the tires will wear more quickly in hard cornering, which in itself will be much more dangerous, and you will lose safety and reliability in the straights with these quickly eroding tires. Without the flip ups, the rear tires' lift will tremendously increase, forcing engineers to use more rear wing, and therefore front wing to balance the car, and boom, you now have an enourmous wake that will be nothing short of suicidal for the drivers to lap in. Someone needs to make sure Bernie and Max are actually AWARE of this.
Yes but an F1 car should not have a semi or an automatic transmission. I've always hated those things, it takes too much skill away from the driver. The same could be said about traction control. it should be about the best driver not the best computer.
Traction control removal in theory is a good idea in keeping with driver skill, but think about launching well in a car that has almost no torque below 14,000 rpm. You would see the start of the race as all but maybe five guys stalling, and then the crews would run out onto the track and struggle to start the cars. But I do agree in part, they can do away with it for the turns, but for the sake of excitement, they should keep launch control.
Rob, You are right, but Brundle was NOT talking about that he was specifically talking about the "Ground Effects" type cars of the early 80's. These cars have always been referred to as "ground effects" cars and this term, even though ALL cars use the ground, is not used to refer to cars past or before that time/design. Everybody involved with motorsport when they talk "Ground effects" is refering to the tunnels in the side pods and skirts ... well everybody I know and read, ie. autosport, etc. This will be my solution ... from now on when I talk about "Ground effects" and mean the 80's solution ... I will specifically say "Ground effects as per the 80's F1 cars". Thus Martin Brundle was suggesting that F1 look at returning to "Ground effects as per the 80's F1 cars" in a way of helping the cars be able to race closer together without loosing their downforce. Pete
No worries, the new rules also require a starter on the car, so when the driver stalls it, he can push the start button.
Sure, but then once it is started, he'll just have to launch, aka stall, the car again. So like I said, they would all just sit there stalling and starting again and again.
Just drop the clutch at 18,000 rpm ... and use the rear wheels as the clutch That is how most race cars are launched (with exception on the 18,000 rpm part!). Pete
Why give the racer a car!? FOR WHAT! LETS GIVE THEM A DONKEY AND A CART! No automatic transmission, no traction control, no tires and no aerodynamics. That will be real skill... A DONKEY AND A CART going around Monaco! No need for any car!
A SACK! A SACK! THAT COSTS TOO MUCH! The SACK idea will only be permitted if the sack is made to last for SIX RACES IN A ROW! The costs in F1 are too high! We need to lower costs and make F1 exciting for the fans! OPTION 1) A donkey and a cart for the entire season OPTION 2) A SACK for 6 races PS: someone ask the FIA to conduct another meaningless survey to decide between option 1 and 2 (no other choices). Results to be published in November!
In my opinion, a sack would provide the viewers with more driver competition. However the clear choice for the engineers would be the cart and donkey. Would they be allowed the use of traction control for their carts?
Read post #61... no traction control! We can have THREE teams with SACKS And we can have SEVEN teams with Donkey's and Carts NO WHEELS ALLOWED ON THE CART! TOO EXPENSIVE! Either way Michelin cannot provide safe wheels to those Seven teams.
Wiil the teams be able to train the donkey to crap on demand in stratigic areas of the track to cause to other teams to take a different line?
Well if the Donkey can dump for over a half a mile this might just be an unfare advantage. So i forsee the FIA mandating the maximum width of the donkeys A$$ and the maximum capacity of the bowel cavity.
How history repeats ... I can just hear the arguments (again) regarding should the donkey pull the cart or push it ... Pete
True and will be have a war going on between companies that make "Donkey shoes" Then lets see the donkey will have to be fed wid race so i am sure some team will come up with a faster way of force feeding the Donkey grass and oats. Then the Russian Midland team will become competitive all of a sudden and there will be rumors of them injecting there Donkeys with steroids.
SORRY! Only Spec Donkey CART formation allowed. No money can be spent on Research and Development! Costs in F1 are too high! Any team that spends money on researching Donkey and cart setup will be banned from F1! MAKE F1 CHEAPER and more interesting for fans!
Teams will be provided the donkey and cart when they come to the track by the FIA. Teams will not be able to touch their donkey and cart before and after the race. Donkeys will NOT be fed for the entire season! COSTS TOO MUCH! Make F1 CHEAPER and more interesting for fans!
