Hi Guys, I just did a search and found nothing on this. I might be in need of new shocks. I recently got my car back and took her out for a nice drive. I enthusiastically took a nice left hand curve and instead of my car rolling into a set, she rolled into her set position, then bouced back up and went back to her set position. Very disconcerting to say the least as I was moving along at a good pace. I bounced the car at all 4 corners and did notice the rear much softer than the front. And the rear oscillated a bit longer than normal. Especially the passenger rear. Are shocks known to go quickly? Or do they go slowly over time? How much to replace the shocks? Is this something a moderately handy guy can tackle on his own? Thanks, Manny
I just replaced the shocks on my Dino but you could use the adustment built into the shock. I will double check on this but I think you can compress the shock off the car and turn the top half left or right to change the internal setting to compensate for wear. Personally, if you go to the trouble of removing the shock it would be best to put a new one on. They aren't too expensive.
If the shocks are original, I don't think adjusting them is gonna get the result he's looking for. Also, if the shocks are original, so are the springs, and he might want to consider replacing them at the same time, bushings too. If you're gonna overhaul part of the suspension, why not go all the way? Although shocks are easier to do than bushings. The bushings need to be de-welded, and re-welded, right? DM.
Dave's right. With the rubber bushings being 30 + years old, as well as the rest of the suspension, shocks/springs, it would be a good idea to go through the suspension. I would also be wise, if you have yet to do so, to replace ALL of the rubber hoses in the car, like fuel lines, that rot with age. Good Luck with your Dino.
Thanks for all the input guys. I read thru the shop manual last night. The reason that the car was in the shop was for electrical reasons. The alternator had to come out. And the shop had to remove the passenger side fuel tank. I read the procedure in removing the fuel tank and it requires taking the suspension apart. I'm going to call them today and see if they might have missed something in reassembly. I'd check it myself but I don't have a jack low enough to get under the car. I guess it's time to just go out and get a low profile jack. I agree with you guys that if I'm going to replace the shocks, the rest of the suspension should be changed as well. Thanks again, Manny
Just a thought. I noticed some of the 308 guys updated to QA1 coilover shocks. Anyone ever hear of a Dino with coilovers? I guess the stock shocks are technically coilovers. But I'm thinking the new adjustable height shocks. Manny
Actually, someone showed that you can press the bushings out/in to the a-arms, which greatly saves time in grinding the welds, and re-welding the new ones in. You leave the original metal sleeve, and just push the rubber part out.
My Dino 246 GT is 1972 and has original shocks on rear, "new" on front. 184,000 miles to date. My advise: Read the shop manual all the way through. My reason for changing front shocks was that upper steel ring broke at weld, first one side, then the other. Turns out that I had been doing some off-road driving and there is a certain size of rock that can settle between the upper shock bracket and the shock ring. When you hit a bump, the rock stops rotation of shock ring and the weld takes infinite stress. It breaks but shock and spring is still vaguely attached to car. I went into the bracket with a carbide tool and relieved the area behind the shock ring so there was at least 1/16" clearance under normal load. Bought new shocks and all was good. For a while! After 10,000 miles it happened again. Got out grinder and removed most of bracket behind shock ring. 3/16" clearance now. Had a precision industrial welder TIG weld shock ring back together. Has been fine for the last 15 years. Koni shocks last until the oil seals go. Nothing else wears out and if there is no oil on the outside, they are probably fine. The book says that you should never cycle the shocks either horizontally or (God forbid) inverted. If you do, you have to move the oil back to where it belongs. It is possible but I have never had to try. See Koni. New shocks are EXPENSIVE. Good luck and don't be afraid to question your mechanic. If you have the stock air conditioner compressor, getting the alternator out is a problem, as is the fuel tank. With no compressor, and a tank like mine with a relief by the alternator, just take out the compressor and oil cooler water lines and the alternator will come out. Tank can stay. No reason to take out suspension anyway. Final note: the Dino does not bounce on its shocks. If any rebound is above starting height, something is really, really bad. Mine does not come all the way back to level after 170 lbs. on a corner. The shocks are supposed to be STIFF. Good luck. John
John, I agree with you about the durability of the shocks. I don't see any oil on the outside of the shocks. And I suspect that the shop might not have put everything back correctly. Thus the sudden change in handling. I also noticed on my first drive upon getting the car back, that I had a fuel leak. I filled up the tank and parked the car for over an hour. When I came back, there was a puddle of fuel under the passenger side of the car. I inspected the engine compartment and I couldn't find anything. And I haven't seen any leaks since. But since they had to remove the passenger fuel tank, I suspect that maybe all did not go back as it should. I don't have a jack low enough to get the car up to inspect everything thoroughly. I will be getting a jack at the first opportunity. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, Manny
Just edited my post and found your almost immediate reply to my original. Read my latest version and see what you think. Good luck John
You can not judge shock absorber wellness by examining the exterior for the lack of oil, or by bouncing each corner of the car. The only way to correctly check a shock's ability is to remove it from the car and place it in a GMF shock machine. Most any shock absorber replacement store has one. "Koni shocks last until the oil seals go. Nothing else wears out and if there is no oil on the outside, they are probably fine" Not true! If you look at the workshop manual, you will notice that the Koni shocks in your car were designed with a wear compensation function. And there are a number of things that can go wrong with a shock absorber. If it were me, I would sure check my 33 year old shocks. And replace ALL of the 33 year old rubber hoses in the car. But that's just me!
Manny, Just drove out to Costco to do some shopping and compared your handling comments with my car. My roll is minimal compared to most any other car including newer Ferraris. The car is very, very low. If you are getting substantial roll and a bounce, something is wrong with anti-roll bars, and/or shocks, and/or almost flat tires. My Dino is like a really good dog. You walk up to him in the morning and he wags his tail and says "Where you want to go today boss?" Any thing you want is great with him! A Dino should never surprise you with a handling problem. Either it is broke or it is great. Shocks can be damaged by racing or heavy off road travel. Wearing a Koni out on a freeway should take 1 to 5 million miles with a 2500 lb car. If the shocks are bad, the chances are that they have been cycled on their side and there is no oil where it will do any good. New ones may be needed but I doubt it. My book has detail instructions on how to rebuild them, the proper oil to use, and the warning: "Under no circumstances extend or compress the shock absorber while it is in the horizontal position" My book is Ferrari 246-GT/S REPAIR AND WORKSHOP MANUAL translated by Angelo Wallace in 1976. The only errors I have found are the torque ratings for 6x1 mm bolts as used to hold the cams in place. The error was in the original Ferrari manual. The book says 3.3 Kg which is guaranteed to strip the nut or break the stud. I use 0.9 to 1.0 Kg as recommended in most Mechanics handbooks. The errors are on the pages describing cam replacement and in the table that has torque settings for all sizes of fasteners. The book was purchased from GT Car Parts in Phoenix many years ago. They have been a marvelous source of parts for 19+ years. They have original, replica, equivalent, and used parts; and VERY GOOD advise. GT Car Parts 419 West Lone Cactus Drive Phoenix, AZ 85027-2956 623-780-2200 Ask for Dave If you would like to see what my Dino handles like, come up to Santa Barbara and we will compare notes. I am in the phone book. John P.S. Leakage from right fuel tank is because they did not connect something to all of the tank fittings. There are at least 3 fittings on the top of the right hand tank. Vent, emission control, carburator by pass and maybe more. Probably emission control is open since puddle is not continous. I have removed all emission control stuff since it has all died and is no longer required. I crimped top of extra tubes and covered crimp with a thick layer of red silicone high temp gasket material. Use Red silicone only! Blue and clear silicone self destructs in a few months. Use a plastic cap with same silicone if you want to preserve original details for Concours points for a future owner. John
John, Thank you for your generous offer. I hope I won't have to take you up on it. Though I'd love to get a ride in your car. That's one of the things with owning a rare car. You can't find another one to find out what's right or wrong. The internet has been a great help but how much a vehicle rolls is so subjective. I spoke with the shop and they said that they didn't have to touch the suspension when removing the fuel tank. So I'm trying to locate a low profile jack as soon as I can. I tried the normal places like Sears, Pep Boys and such. But no luck. There's a cheap one on the internet but that auction won't end for another 3 days. So I should have a jack by next week figuring shipping. I'd like to check around under my car and see how much I can find out before having to bother you John (or anyone else). I've also recently developed, (or I should say it has returned), an annoying backfire and popping. I spoke with the shop and they think it's because they've had to remove the fuel tank so much that they might have sloshed up some gunk from the bottom of the fuel tank. And that it might be clogging my carbs. I just had the carbs rebuilt. Yet another thing to deal with. As for the manual, I think I have the same one as you. I got a copy of it from another Fchat member, dm_n_stuff. I'll read the part about rebuilding the shocks. Thanks again John and I hope I can call you when my car is in good health and we can go for a drive. Manny
I used to have that exact piece of lumber. But recently, my gardener has been very enthusiastic about cleaning up the place and threw everything out.
Manny, I made my low profile jack by buying a $20 Pep Boys hydraulic trolley jack and making smaller front wheels for it. My machine shop made a pair of low profile wheels out of steel bar stock for another $20. If you don't mind the scraping noise, just take off the front wheels and let it go at that. I jack under the back of the frame rails, from the back. Do not jack on the motor mount crossmember. Set the Jack so the jack handle just clears the exhaust pipes. If I have to go under the car, I put jack stands in first. $20 jacks are bad life insurance. Make sure that the stands you get will go low enough! Those little jacks don't go very high and there is not much clearance under a Dino. If you want to go higher, everybody has something that will fit. The first inch is the killer. There is no room for a creeper. Beach towels do work just fine. If it is really serious, you need a lift anyway. I have taken out right rear gas tank. alternator, water pump, both heads (and all that entails), clutch cable, right rear suspension bushings, calipers, wheel bearings, etc. and got everything all back together myself with the above. I am 70 but still ski and can crawl pretty good. When I first bought the car, there was a ding in the left side where the jack had slipped out and raised hell. I tried the Dino Jack on level ground and promptly put it in my basement (we do have them in SB). I went out to the local bone yard, found a Honda Civic scissors jack that would fit under the car both front and rear. It has been in my trunk for 19 years and earned its $5.00 many times over. When jacking the front, I catch the frame rail that comes out to the door pilar, just behind the front wheel. That rail is largely hidden by the flush bottom skin but it is solid. Some of the little jacks have agressive locating tabs on the jacking pads. If it bothers you, grind them down some and fill the pad with silicone rubber almost to the top. John
Excellent advice....there have been a few posts on this site about Koni shocks that will sieze with age. The rubber bits inside crumble and mix with the oil, then clog the valves, causing the shock to no longer move (or move very little, and very firmly). Rebuilding or replacing returned the proper compliance and damping.
John or anyone else that knows, I've searched for quite a while in this section and didn't find the photo of your front suspension that I recall from memory, so I'm settling on this post to request your help. Apologies if this post location is a bit arbitrary. I've started in on a suspension refresh of Dino #1 and upon disassembly of the front suispension, I see there are shims between the Ball joints and the A-Arms. The parts book shows both the upper and lower have four shims with 2 shims in front and 2 behind (photo: Tavola 32, Items 17 & 18). On my Dino I'm seeing every combination BUT 2 in front and 2 behind each ball joint (3:1, 0:4, etc). Aren't Caster and Camber controlled by the U-Bolt shims at the body (photo: Tavola 32, Items 7/1)? Are the Ball joint shims necessary for Caster or was the previous person to work on this car, just darn sloppy? Thank you everyone in advance, Scott Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
They are used to set the castor angle. Be careful how you take them out. ie. Label and mark EXACTLY where they came. Some have 3-1 or 4-0 depends on any previous work you do not know about OR the factory did it that way when setting up the chassis. I would deburr the welds on the suspension bushes as you will score the hole in the suspension arm. Also there are spacer shims ( no 16) on the front suspension bushings which need to go back when you press on the new ones. I think you are doing the correct thing to be honest, mine car suffered similar problems. I have re-built the suspension with new bushes, balljoints, springs, and Koni adj. shocks. Had the car set up on a 4 wheel laser alignment machine afterwards whereby they did everything in setting up the suspension...hey presto. What a transformation. Word of caution in removing springs. I would advise against using spring compressors, use a proper hydraulic ram to remove the clips or get a shop to do it for you. If they go.........orbit & space spring to mind
