Bad PPI - looking for opinions

One of the first things I did was look up the laws. I am, as you see, in TX. I know there is a legal basis for a claim. However, even if I completely clean up in the case I think I would do far more damage then good. The only happy people would be my lawyer and Matt's lawyer (even if it was settled out of court).

I am think far further down the road. I do not want Matt to go out of business. I do not want to bury his reputation.

Regardless of the outcome I know I am not totally blameless. I did everything I could to MINIMIZE my risk. Ferraris are Ferraris. I was looking for the opinions that have been expressed here. Again, much thanks.

 

LSU308, ( Mike),

sorry to read about your misfortunes, i do think it is very upstanding of you to post it out in the open for discussion. for the record, my thoughts and rules were brought up as a generalization of how "i" am wired and how "i" work. i did not mean for any of my post to be specific to you or insult you in any personal way. i have had folks buy 30 year camaros and then call me wanting to know why this or that stopped working 5 months later. old cars are made of old parts that break from time to time.

your story struck a cord with me related to all the half wit wanna be's that call wanting an old ferrari for thier teenage daughter to drive everyday because its "cute and cheap". oh, and it seems because i am an aircraft mechanic that i have some sort of special ability to know in advance, anything that may go wrong on the car, before they buy it. just venting,


seems the things your cars needs are minor overall if tackled one at a time. why the heck is a front end rebuild $5000k? perhaps you can get a second opinion on the severity of the repairs and do a "fix list" based on safety and cost. some things you may be able to do yourself, other things you may want to save for and schedule.

i really hope it works out for you either way. Michael

 

I think I understated what the 5k includes - it includes ALL of the bushings in the supension and drive train of the car (not just the front). All of them. They are all shot. I can fix all of them except the A-arms that need a spot weld cut off and then either rewelded or pop rivited (learned this from one of MANY calls today)

No offense was taken. I share a lot of your opinion on the matter.

 

And you all know this is a total lie. Once addicted always addicted. I am just coming off of a bad hit from my dealer.

 

Tillman is the man

He just pointed me to this VERY good A arm bushings thread:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49955

Thank you to Birdman for the original post.

Much wrenching work being planned out. Too dang hot to do it now - plenty of planning time.

 

i strongly agree with both fanatic1 and mikeyr opinions

i just want to add that you're flat out koo koo imho

sorry
but that's my opinion

your mentality scares me

again, just mho

 

At the very least you should call the first mechanic and explain your situation......you never know what kind of person he can turn out to be. You also have little to loose.

 

For the record, your car looks awesome.

 

Thanks, and it is not a total write off by any means. My baby just needs some special attention. Continued proof that Ferraris are females, you will never know what they want but it will always be expensive.

 

I thought idoc did this post. It mimic's his problems to the t as well.

I was giving him advice (I thought he used my name) and Fatbillybob was on with him as well (His name is Carl)

BIZARRE.

 

I had all the suspension bushings replaced on my ex 308 for way less tha 5K maybe around $2, 500 . I don't remember exactly but the total bill was 4K and it included the bushings, upper and lower ball joints , radiator R/R (labor only here) , and a valve adjustment and a/c recharge

 

Hey how about you save the off-hand lawyer insults? Especially since one was nice enough to do some research on your behalf.

 

Lawyers are the dogs people kick all the time around the house, then expect to protect them when danger looms.


How come nobody ever complains about oncologists like that? Oh yeah, those darn oncologists, poisoning thousands of people with radiation, cutting their colons out. Get cancer and all you've got is a happy oncologist killing you and billing your insurance tens of thousands of dollars!

Is my reasoning fair? :|

 

A dog that's been kicked around is tougher and angrier and meaner. Who wants a poodle representing them in court? (kidding)

 

Performing a PPI on any car let alone a Ferrari is almost taking your entire reputation and putting it on the line for one car.

Performing one on a 30 year old car is even worse. I have workorders specificly printed up for PPI inspections and nothing gets done or released without a signature from the buyer and the owner. I even request the both parties be preasent at the shop once the inspection is completed so I can show both parties my findings. I then step back and let the buyer and seller battle it out. This way both parties have seen the car up close and personal and have been walked through the inspection.

I have many times thought about refusing to do PPI inspections on Ferrari's and other exotics because of the possiable liabilities involved..but buy using this method I have not had a problem.

The entire key to a PPI for a tech is to be truthful and to explain everything. We must cover our butts, so sometimes a big list is not really a bad thing and its not the fact that we are trying to take you for a ride, its to avoid "that" phone call with a whinning new owner on the other end, complaining that you missed the low washer fluid and wants a another PPI done, because if you missed the washer fluid, and what else did you not check type of call. And beleave me it happends alot.

 

In the boat business we have "surveys";PPI to you. If you want to finance a used boat, or insure any boat a survey is required. Most surveyors belong to an oganization that sets standards of performance, and, hopefully, competence. A guild so to speak.
I have NEVER seen a written survey that did not include a "Hold Harmless" clause.

 

Had the Car been driven infrequently before you bought it?

If so the Tyres and CV boot will have degraded from standing still and the use you got out of them will have caused them to fall apart, seems like the same old Garage Queen issues, this could also apply to the front bushes, after all rubber suspension parts werent designed to last 30 years.

If the parts realy were defective when the car was PPI'd you would probabley have noticed it a bit sooner than the 18 months (or so) and 2000 miles you've had the car for

 

i am empathetic to LSU308's predicament and i truly hope that all involved will find solutions that is satisfactory to both parties.

with that said, i bought a 360 spider about 3 wks ago and had a PPI done by norwood. i couldn't have been more pleased with the quality of their inspection and workmanship. mike called me half way through the inspection to detail a five pages of reports (of bad news, unfortunately) and he strongly recommended that i pass on the purchase. instead of charging me the full $450, mike only charged me $250 since he didn't see the need to further the inspection w/ leakdown and compression tests. in the end, they probably saved me thousands of dollars of future repairs...

norwood, a quality shop that's operated by very principle people. i hold them in high regards and i'm certain they are people of reasons. and i hope this bad experience doesn't discourage them from conducting PPI in the future.

good luck to you both.

 

sounds to me that you have got a PPI and a 2 year warranty mixed up allsorts can deteriate in time especially rubber you was satisfied when you bought it how come 18 months down the line you want to complain

 

OK,

I just got out from under that car and all I can say is I owe Matt (James at Norwood's) an apology - actually Mike at Norwoods as I talked to him and expressed a few 4 letter words followed by "lemon".

What I failed to realize is how anal Ferda is. The things he "found" are the exact things James found except the tires (big deal - easy miss because they look brand new). There is not a metal-to-metal failure of a single bushing on the car. The very ones Ferda pointed at are the ones I have been watching per James' advice. The car is 20 years old, James told me that and said they are cracked, you can replace them but all they do is squeak (and they do). Ferda just took a MUCH more conservative position and said "change them all now".

The oil leaks are as I knew they were. Nothing new. I must have misunderstood Ferda because yesterday I thought he said I needed an engine out. Now I understand that is not needed. It would just be nice to change all the oil seals to stop the leaks (which are not bad, and are the EXACT ones James pointed out - it was easier to see them as the engne had been cleaned).

Boy you guys are spot on. It amazes me how much experience is on this board.

I am very happy I am not as big a jackass shade tree mechanic as I felt yesterday. I asked the buyer to just come have a look at the car to give it a chance but I am not holding my breath. He knows less about the car then I do and I was scared stiff after talking to Ferda.

Let me make one thing clear - Ferda did not lie. His representation of the car was correct if the buyer wants a spot on perfect car with every little bitty thing with any wear replaced (except the tires - those need to be replaced - he is dead on correct there). My car is in better shape then I thought believe it or not.

Again, my apoligies to James (and Mike) for coming unglued.

To the lawyers I offended - everyone has an opinion - everyone also has a butthole, I am sure you think both of mine stink. Sorry, OJ, Michael Jackson, all the policicians are lawyers...etc. Yes, I know all lawyers are not like that. I have friends that are lawyers...and they know the best lawyer jokes. Get over it - you will always be a target of oppurtunity...that is until the sharks start biting you because now they do not as a professional courtesy

-Mike

 

Well, I'm glad things worked out...

With a 30 year old car you are going to have leaks, bad bushings, bad hoses, etc. I think folks just have to learn to accept that. ITS A 30 YEAR OLD CAR for god's sake!!!! If you want none of these problems BUY NEW. Of course not everyone does that, because new cost 7X more than used...

Unless a car had a 100pt restoration, they ALL have:

1) Bad bushings (no one ever replaces EVERY bushing - too expensive)
2) Some rust, somewhere. Live with it, its 30 years old.
3) Seeps oil. I don't care what anyone says, they all do. Even with a major no one splits the case to replace all seals. Live with it, unless you get puddles...
4) bad rubber. Its somewhere on your car...sorry. I know we want to think the previous owner spent 100,000$ maintaining his car, and then sold it to you for 30k$. Just ain't so...

Realistically, no one maintains a 30 yr old 308 as if it were new. You would be an idiot to do so. The cost would soon overshadow the price of the car. Realize this when you buy a 30 yr old car - you want one thats 80% perfect, because thats about the best you will do...

With you car - if you wanted to have a dealer fix everything, you would likely spend 15,000$ Now, are you prepared to do that??? Do you think your car will all of a sudden be worth 15,000$ more? HAH. Probably worth about 2,000$ more, tops. The spread between a piece-o-cr*p 308 and a nice one is about 10,000$. The difference between an average one and a great one is far less, figure 3-4,000$. Just the reality of it... On the flip side, are you willing to sell your car for 15,000$ less now, that you know it needs some love? If so, I'll write you a check for $10,000 - $15,000 today...just bring the car over...

If you want a perfect car, buy new. It will be cheaper...

 

Glad everything seems to be working out. There are so many variables involved when you have to interpret not only one, but two somewhat subjective opinions...

 

Rob,

I wrote a check to them on an account I nolonger have. I was quoted $500 via email and now that you said it I did not do the leakdown (James talked me out of it). It may have been just $375. My brain wants to say $500 pretty bad though. Again, immaterial - James did just as good a job as Ferda. My tire (left rear) may have cracked when I had the rims swapped. I called Norwood's and aplogized to the answering machine...I will call them and take any flamings due Monday.