Bad PPI - looking for opinions

For the record...2005-1985 = 20 years

I have not got a speck of rust ANYWHERE on my 308...and that is very scary.

I totally agree with your assesment. I think I mishandled my buyer and he is scared to death now. He is an Fchatter...maybe he is reading this now. Bottom line is I do not want to sell the car to a buyer and have them feel misled. The crux of my pain yesterday was I suspected I may have done so without knowing. I am relieved that is not the case. Damage is done anyway for this particular deal.

I am going to go take a picture of the bushing on top of the engine Ferda said must be replaced. It is old...but it is not a failure. Some look worse then this but I think this one tells the tale. "All bushings must be replaced" was the recommendation.

Stand by...

 

This is the bushing that goes from the block to the back of the car in the engine bay. This bushing is nowhere near failure but I was advised it needs to be replaced. It is 20 years old, rubber, and has surface cracks. Yup, if the owner wants a 100 pt car I agree. I am not selling the car for 42k though because I know it has wear. My actual price with the buyer is a bit below 30 with a trade involved (some rims for the next beast).

Three pics attached. The one in front does not need to be replaced as of today. I was a tad put off with that comment as yesterday ALL needed to be replaced. Again, maybe I misunderstood Ferda in my stoop of depression and sudden expectation of gruesome injury to my investment account.

Lesson learned...two mechanics can look at the same thing and have totally different opinions and both be competent. I do feel a PPI is still a good idea.
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Pics are blurry...sorry. There are some very fine cracks in the bushing. They are very small though. None extend across the bushing...and this one does not squeak. The squeaker is on the right rear shock tower. If I was scum I would spary oil on it and shut it up. I sprayed water on it to test to see if it was my squeaker...it worked. It shut up. Next day...squeaked as soon as I sat in the car (I weigh 240 6'2"...it knows when I plop into it.)

 

YOu did not offend me personally because you rejected my advice. Ironically, if you go back and re-read my post, most of what i suggested you do involved taking a reasoned, step by step approach without sabre-rattling. Your 'apology' which took the form of a stereotype joke about lawyers being a legitimate target for jibes, was not really an apology anyway. Fact is, I "give back" through this forum and enjoy helping when i can.

 

Understood whart...I'm just poking. Lawyers serve an important role. Some lawyers just make life harder for the legit ones. You do not need me to say this.

Have you ever been bit by a shark, I rest my case.

 

Mike,

I'm glad things are working out.

 

I think you got a mechanic that was having a bad day, and took it out on your car. He decided to find every nit noid thing wrong and write it up. Now he's back tracking a little because it's a new day, and he might not be pissed off today. You could find tons of shi t on a 20-30yr old car. If the bushing squeaks, who cares? If it effects the drivability of the car, then change it.

 

So, what do you want for that POS? I could always use a beater car

 

CAVEAT EMPTOR has never had a truer context than basing your purchasing decision on a third party PPI. Unless you pay someone to completely disassemble a 30 year old vehicle, at exorbitant cost, you will never find everything that is potentially worn/damaged/broken.
The worst that can happen to the PPI entity is that their reputation is badly damaged. I really do not believe that Norwood has any liability other than the return of the payment they collected for doing the PPI.
When you buy a used car you buy it's history, warts and all. It is a hazard that is present in every used car sale.

 

Yup - I agree now.

 

PM sent about my POS with no rust that runs perfectly

It just has ugly toenails...I am not a foot man.

 

$5000 for bushings, sure!!!

 

No, I think he just had a bad day. He is truly an artist with his work. I am a tad peeved with him today but I know where he is coming from. I can truly say now "no stories" I know everything about the car...in gruesome detail.

I did not know all of my hoses and belts were ship shape. I knew they were good but not good good.

 

Alex: You may be right about the result, or what's fair in this case (again, i'm not taking any issue with anything Norwoods has done), but in a hypothetical situation where a mechanic was negligent in discerning problems and either failed to report them, or otherwise gave a clean bill of health to an apparatus that did not deserve it, I do see potential liability for the mechanic. In fact, that's why I suggested that the shops contractually limit their liability.
This is not my area of specialization, but i took a quick look, via my home computer- no fancy law firm database, that is- and found a recent 6th Circuit decision affirming liability for a faulty airplane inspection. http://fsnews.findlaw.com/cases/6th/04a0259p.html

I did not see anything in the case that suggested the result was peculiar to aviation law. In fact, the court seemed to rely on well-worn negligence principles. While I am not offering this as the definitive word on the subject, I am suggesting that what you think is fair in this circumstance, and what the potential liability may be under applicable law, could be two very different things.

 

I understand the difference very clearly. I am an investor and promises and projections and hypothetical returns are the currency I deal in from those who need me. I ensure that the agreements I enter into have teeth regarding the reps and warranties given in any transaction.
Having said that, people also have to live with themselves and in this particular instance it appears as if the damage that has been quantified would be worth less than the cost of mounting a legal campaign to recover the loss - and if you find yourself in front of a jury that doesn't really get the complexities and can be made to have some doubt about the real extent of the damage, you could wind eating the legal fees and depreciated cost of the asset anyway. Lawsuits are really a last resort in just about any instance.

 

Alex, I am not quibbling with your judgement generally, or with the conclusion you reach here. I only take issue with the statement you made: "The worst that can happen to the PPI entity is that their reputation is badly damaged."

 

Somebody fill in the answer here:

How was copper wire invented?

(Yes Whart...I am digressing to a lawyer joke again - I apologize in advance.)

On a non hijacked note...this whole string has caused some lurkers to come back into the buying picture. I may have a BETTER deal in hand soon. Very similar deal but I know this guy is a DIYer extrordinaire. I di not see that coming.

 

Okay. I guess there are worse things possible, but unlikely in this context, mainly due to the value of damages attributable to a botched car PPI versus the cost of pursuing the action. That was my point - not the possibility that under a typical State Statute there are legal grounds under which an aggrieved party could proceed.

 

A quick diversion to the conversation- Would someone please tell a mechanically challenged (but trying to learn) individual what the hell is a bushing?
Thanks,
Chris

 

sure. a bushing works the same way that cartilage does between two bones. a bushing cushions and absorbs some shocks of movement , while allowing movement between two (metal) parts. this way the part has a known lenght of travel. when the bushing fails, it can make noise, and / or the parts suddenly have way more clearance to move about. this is what causes suspensionbumps, rattles, and a "LOOSE" feeling in steering and suspensions. non frame cars use body bushing to cushion the passenger area from the front and rear subframes. Ferrari and Lambo are full ladder tube frames, at least the old ones i mess with are. a Trans am or Camaro has a front and rear subframe and the passanger area is just a "tub" of sheetmetal.
these care called "UNI-BODIES" and are cheap to make , but difficult to fix when damaged .

a full frame car is more expensive to make, and is heavier, but it does not flex like other types and is easier to repair when damaged. you can jack up a 308 on one corner and raise the other 3 corners of the car, as the frame is that strong. ( this is with the Dino and GTB, the GTS flexes a bit too much and makes noise when bieng raised this way )


hope this helped you some . Michael

 

Thanks Michael, very helpful.
Chris

 

PPI: My 33 year old car is in really great shape. Starts, runs strong, stops quick. I would buy my car for an appropritae price. But...if anyone did a PPI on my car, they'd come up with 20 issues, at least! Heck, I could list 10 things on my 'to do' list that might scare the pants off someone who's not used to these old sports cars.

The only thing I'd look for on a PPI of an old car is rust, leakdown/compression, and overall state of the engine. Everything else is either ready to break or will be a liability given time. That's just how it is. You can do a frame off and not have bushes, bearings, hoses, seals, gaskets, etc. that may at any time show their age, but those are rare in any marque that's 20+ years old.

So when you're buying an old Ferrari (or any sports car), be aware the PPI isn't a warrenty on anything!

Ken

 

Actually, it is. A technician performing a PPI holds himself out as a professional possessing the necessary skill, judgment and expertise to complete the PPI properly and accurately. If the terms of his retainer include examination of certain items and he renders an demonstrably incorrect opinion, he is clearly liable for the damages suffered by the person who reasonably relies upon that opinion.

If a lawyer is retained to opine on the tax consequences of a certain transaction and provides bad advice costing the client millions, he doesn't just give back his fee - he (and his insce carrier) also pay the damages.

You may not like the result and I'm not suggesting that anyone run off to their lawyer (lawyers always win - clients don't), but it's fairly elemental. Why waste your time getting a PPI if you can't rely upon it?

 

If you ever get arrested, be sure to call a plumber.

 

I'm permitted to dis 'em. Although I no longer practise, I are one.