HELP - Is this 308 okay?

Horowitz,
That car is worth $39K only if it is an honest 100 point concourse car with *perfect* paint and a recent major, and that is no easy task. That means it looks exactly in all ways like it just came off the assembly line, every single hose and clamp is new, and you could drive it to Alaska without anything breaking. You would need a PPI from someone who is an expert in 308s to confirm that. The problem with owning a car like that is you can't drive it, because the miles hurt it's value. Who wants a Ferrari you can't drive?? I mean, if you are looking to buy a garage queen to take to shows on a trailer, then that's one thing.

We had a dealer here in MA that was selling a 2 valve injected 308 for $39K and it was in very good, but not concourse condition. It sat and sat and finally sold to someone that just didn't know what these things are worth. They are counting on someone that sees the Pracing Horse and gets stars in the eyes. "Ooooh, I can have a real Ferrari for only $39,000!!!" The seller laughed his way to the bank. For that money, I personally would be looking for a perfect QV or an average 328. That is simply way too much for that car IMO.

In the end, buy what you like and be happy. Many people will extoll the virtues of paying a *little* more than market value for a really good car. Just be sure that if you pay more, the car is worth it. In this case, it's a lot more. I would offer $30K and go from there. You have nothing to lose by offering it. You know more about these cars than the average buyer. You know it's a 2 valve injected car, the least desirable of 308s (no offense guys). If the guy laughs at your offer, you can explain the reasoning behind it, and point out the current trends in pricing of 308s. An '82 is just not a $39K car!

Remember, half the fun is searching for the right car to buy. Take your time, hunt around, and don't be afraid to buy a car from far away and have it shipped to you. Shipping is cheap.

Good luck.
Birdman

 

Last year, I sold my 1985 308 GTSi QV, fully documented since new, with 65K miles and major service done for $27k. It was a great car, and I wish I would have kept it.

That might give you some reference.

 

I'm one of those who usually spends more on cars to get the absolute best one I can find. If the car truly is perfect, then it might be worth more than $30K to you and that's fine.

What you're getting on this forum is a sneak peek at what a bunch of real Ferrari buyers are telling you they would pay - think of it as the "Resale Preview" thread. I.e., it will take you forever to re-sell it at any figure close to $39K if/when you decide to sell. You're also getting fair warning that 10,000 miles on the odometer is incredibly suspicious OR a sign that the car has sat around for most of 23 years. Bad news or bad news. You may need to sink another $10K into it, and you have to ask whether you want to be in this car for $49K. Maybe you're OK with that - kind of depends on your wallet.

What I can say is that when I started looking for a 308/328 in January, I agonized over the first car I saw that was decent. I thought "holy **** if I pass on this, it's gone..." yada yada yada. I mean, it's a FERRARI! How many could there be? Well, after six months of writing to and talking with people on this board and a couple of independent Ferrari mechanics, I realize that the minor flaws I was trying to rationalize were about $10K by Ferrari prices, and they would have annoyed me every day. And, another car comes on the market every week or two.

I keep learning more. I have a call tonight with an 84 308QV owner in Florida who was gracious enough to invite me to call him so he could talk about his 4 years of 308 ownership. Very cool. In the meantime, the Right Car will come along and when it does I'll know it (crap this is sounding like Cosmo...)

It's a very powerful thing to be able to say "pass".

 

So true.

I had a 78 308 for two years and I have had my current 83 QV for a year now. Little things can cost a lot of cash. I put about 25K miles on the 78 and I have put a little over 7k on the 83.

A car that has 10k after 23 years will need a major service $5000k, New Tires ($500) New fuel lines ( a MUST @ $1000 ) and things STILL will go wrong. There is nothing wrong with a well documented high milage Ferrari. I think most here would prefer a higher milage car than then a garage queen. Low milage mean nothing on a Ferrari. You pay to drive them and you pay to let them sit. Regardless, it will cost more money to get the garage queen on the road then to get a higher milage car.

 

I have bought cars sight unseen before, but only because they were cheap, and I expected having to put money and work into them. I would buy my first F-car sight unseen, knowing it is a bit of a gamble...........but paying the premium that you are prepared to pay, I would travel to check it out.
Only my 2 cts. worth........
Peter

 

I bought a 308 and a 456 sight unseen (a lot of pics). The 308 had an extensive history. I did not have a PPI (could have been a big mistake!), but I did talk to the mechanic who serviced it. I was very happy when I got it, and I felt that I got exactly what I paid for. The 456 had some minor right rocker damage (parts came with sale) and no history. I knew I was going to have to do a major service and have the repair made. I made an offer accordingly. Car checked out with good PPI (some minor things had to be fixed by seller), and I am extremely happy with the car.

Bottom line, you must feel confident with a seller and find a mechanic who will do a thorough PPI. (If the mechanic does not find anything wrong, go to another mechanic.) If you do buy sight unseen, keep in mind that a 20 year old car should have some wear and tear, just make sure that the mechanic notes it.

 

my 2 cts. i bought an 81 gtsi 3 years ago on a whim. fortunately for once i had a mechanic go through it so it wasn't a total gamble. the car was very nice cosmetically. since i bought it i've put close to 10 k$ into it with lots of my own labor. the car is slow but fast enough. and also the bosch k jetronic
is bulletproof and easy to fix and better the car starts immediately, hot or cold. someday i might buy a qv but the 81 is fun and if you can get a bargain since they're the least desirable 308's do it. it's been a great way to start on owning a ferrari. jon s.

 

You may have already addressed this issue but does the seller have ALL of the paperwork? When I bought my 308, the seller had every piece of paper including the original order forms, bill of sale, books, etc., and every service order.

A second point that I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is that any Ferrari should be serviced either by time or mileage, whichever comes first. Many of these garage queens have been serviced only according to mileage so they sat for years without any service because the mileage wasn't going up. When you have every service order, you can easily trace the service records and the mileage, over the cars lifetime, and make sure that nothing is missing. It's very hard to mess with the speedo when you have every service record. Absent every service record, it's relatively easy.

Getting top dollar for a Ferrari should always mean that the seller has every piece of paperwork and that the car was serviced regularly. Absent either of these, it's not a top car. I would not even look at a car that didn't have both of these and many others, I'm sure, would agree with me.

Why are service records and regular maintenance so important -- because, without these, there is a much higher likelihood of buying a nightmare.

Hopefully, you will be able to say that service records and regular service are both very well documented. Just look for service in the middle of (not the end of) long periods of non-use.

 

That price is way too high for a 2valve car. 2 valve cars are in the 25-30k range. If you pay any more than 30k for a 2valve car then you are going to be upside down right from the start.

 

Uh... If I'm going to spend 20-30 thousand???? yeah, I'd by a $300 plane ticket.
I flew to from Seattle to AZ to see my car for the day.

$35K is stupid money for a GTSi. I have one, I like them, they are worth $25-30K.

 

Does your car have 10,000 miles on it?

 

No, about 60,000...
Why do you ask???

 

I have traveled to NY and KY to inspect cars before and those were ebay Fiats. I Pricelined a couple of airplane tickets for something like $100 last minute and they actually accepted it. I traveled Fri-Sun and drove some cheap, cheap rental car and stayed in a Holiday in Express, both of which I split with a friend. They turned out to be cheap fun weekends. BUT I wanted the cars so I really didn't mind. I wouldn't do it for a used Honda that I need for a second car, though. A Ferrari I would. It's up to you but I would.

 

Another thought... if the travel is something you might not be willing to do, and you're not sure you should accept sight unseen, perhaps you should narrow your search only to places you are willing to travel to and no further....

 

Horowitz,

You are receiving some excellent and invaluable advice on this thread. My hats off to you all assisting. A few points of my own:

(1) Odometers: Be reluctant when reading them. They may not be accurate. If you want a low mileage car, then get one but decide how much risk and money you're willing to risk. My first car (77 B) had 25K miles and my current ((81 Si) has 95K. You know what? The '81 runs better than the '77 and it was a fantastic car. Plus, there's something to not worrying about miles put on a low mile car and it's great to tell people it's age and mileage. I've said it before on another thread: I get the "deer-in-the-headlight" look. It's great.

(2) Buying sight unseen or not: Do what makes you comfortable. If you're not comfortable buying a car, any car, sight unseen, either spend the money to fly to see it or have a PPI done. The first F-car that ever caught my eye, proved to be a weak car. I passed and had another inspected by the same gentleman. The second car was fantastic and the mechanic agreed to do a package deal. Thank you very much, Bill Pollard. Having said this, I have bought three F-cars sight unseen simply because I researched not only the car(s) but the seller(s) as well. I have a gut feeling with a good and a weak seller. I've been fortunate as I've only had great experiences with my cars.

(3) There are a ton of nice 308's out there! Look around. Sometimes the search can be exhausting. If the fun runs out, stop, take a break for a day or so. Remind yourself that buying a Ferrari should be enjoyable.

JMO.

Dane

 

For a pessimistic hard sell you seem very intent on throwing your money at this particular car. If you want want to spend 35K for a 308 GTS I suggest you look for a carb car or a QV. Especially if resale value is a motivating factor. One thing to consider also any car before 1984 models will have no rust proofing. What you think may look great from the outside may have more issues underneath. You could possibly ask someone on this list to go and check it out for you also if your heart is intent on having it.

 

Your ex just took a platinum award at Reading this year..... its been a blast!!

 

If you don't want to travel out to look at the car, just get a PPI done by a local Ferrari guy who is unaffiliated with the shop selling it. You can find one by posting a link in the right forum here on Fchat. If you are going to drop that kind of coin on a car, you are definitely going to want to get the PPI. Hopefully, it will turn up any issues that will determine if the car is really worth this kind of money. Like others have said, a car in this price range better also be fully and 100% documented so you can confirm the odometer. If you can't confirm it with service records, you must assume it is wrong.

Birdman

 

I did a day trip to Denver (from San Diego). I didn't buy the car, but you really need to see and drive these cars to know, and the guys at Ferrari of Denver were extremely helpful. Now that they know what I want, and I know what I want, I'd be OK buying from them sight unseen.

If you have mechanic you trust, you might save the trip, but it's probably worth a few hundred bucks. I don't think I've ever bought a car where you couldn't negotiate enough to cover at least your travel expenses.

 

I suggest making J's offer H if that's the car you want. Worst that can happen is the guy says "no". Then you can always regroup and make another offer if you like. Chances are you'll at least get a counteroffer if you're nice about it.

 

Another option may be to have another forum member who lives close check it out, or at least do a first glance over to see if it's worth you traveling or a PPI. This is not uncommon in the Alfa Romeo community that I am also a member of....may be hard to find someone in Nebraska though

 

Horowitz,

I have to concur with pretty much everyone here that $39k is too much given my research. I was looking at 308s for about 6 months before I found one recently...and that was a word-of-mouth, "never hit the market" deal. Like Birdman, I looked at an '82 in MA where the dealer wanted $39k. Even as a novice I felt that was about $7k too much. Trust your instincts, look at other cars, and buy for condition and not mileage. Best of luck!

 

Well said. It took me four or so paragraphs to say the same thing!

Dane

 

Interesting you should say that -- I think Horowitz's instinct is that the car IS worth $39k based on the fact that he said earlier that he thinks the seller would completely reject a $35k bid...