Bad PPI - looking for opinions

See, this gets murky then. My 33 year old car is NOT for sale, but if it was there are many areas that are "perfect" now but could deteriorate at any time. Rear bearings. On my car, this is a weak point and if they start to go, quickly the hub carrier gets major damage. Big $$$ as the hub carrier is not an easy part to find or cheap if you do.

So I check for play. I have none, but 500 miles from now? Or will they last another 10,000 miles? Who knows. It's a 33 year old car! Will a PPI tell me this? Nope, there's no play now but they're not going to take it apart for an estimation of what's left. That's 10 hours! If it starts to fail in 500 miles I won't be shocked but someone who bought my car would be screaming bloody murder at the PPI guy.

Old cars are OLD!!!! People have to deal with that. If you don't know what I mean, then don't buy an old Ferrari (or any sports/exotic) because you can't handle it. Get a Honda Accord. Get a PPI for it while you're at it. But don't expect a "perfect" 20+ year old sports car to stay that way for long until you yourself have made it into a car you understand. I know what's good on my car and what may not be; the 'may not' part is fine now but for how long? No PPI will tell you that.

Like I said, a PPI is only good for overall condition. Compression, leak down, rust and obvious faults. All the rest.....???? Even the owner can have no clue. I know I don't with my car and it's "perfect".

Ken

 

Oil leaks. This particular issue is in my opinion a little harder to nail Matt on but it is my opinion it is unacceptable to miss this (again, this email is about getting YOUR opinion). Matt said I had very minor oil leaks - specifically on the cooler hoses, valve covers and pans. We knew the car had been steam cleaned. Carl said the leaks are all over and recommends I go ahead and replace them now (major service). The key here is that Matt told me I did not need a major service done. I am confident this is a miss by Matt. This one is very expensive.

Ferrari's can spring oil leaks overnite and leak faster or worse just as quickly.he told you you had oil leaks.Oil leaks tend to grow bigger with time. Not Matts problem.

 

Very well put.

Read this whole thread. Guy winds up going full circle after all the diatribe.
Seems like a wreckless way to almost damage somebody's rep.

What a waste of time.

 

Hey Man - you can self-loathe if you like, but I'm proud of my profession.

 

All of this and for what? $350? Why would any shop put themselves in that position for that money?
I lost a friend / customer over a PPI when I described the amount of rock pitting in the front of his car to an out of state buyer. The data given was a chip count in a measured area and was factual and backed up with pictures. In this description I was accused of over stating a problem area.
It did not take much thinking to come to the conclution that the losses and risks far out weighed the gains.
End result: Lost a friend and the PPI was never paid for by the buyer (both parties are / were FChatters) because he didnt like the out come of the check out.
I feel for Norwood here. Statements were made about how they handled themselves regarding this that appoligies cant make up for. Norwood is a first class shop.
Dave

 

agree....poor risk/reward equation.

other than for professional altruism intent.., a reputable shop like norwood certainly doesn't need to rely on PPI to be a part of their revenue stream.

frankly, they'd have been better off to focus on core business. for the sake of everyone, i hope that isn't the case. i myself, WOULD NOT hesitate to go through the expenditure of shipping a car across the country to them for PPI and be totally secured that it will be done right.

 

I was able to talk to Mike (LSU 308) a couple of days ago and everything is fine between us. I doubt this would have gotten as far as it has if I was not on a back-pack trip with the wife and kids when this issue came up. Mike is a good guy and I understand where he was coming from - I did the inspection on his 308 last year and explained all the issues that I found and did our normal procedure for this $250 inspection, when he recieved the car he was satisfied that it was as I represented it and he has kept an eye on the items that I stated needing attention. He recently decided to sell the 308 and a buyer had a PPI done at a different shop but with the resulting inspection having a different review of the car than my report. Mike was given this information over the phone and, as would be expected, had a very dissatisfied reaction. After going down to the shop and looking over the car and the report he came to realize that the car was infact still in the condition that he thought it to be in prior to this more recent PPI. Once Mike had the full story he left a very nice message at my shop last weekend and I was able to talk to him on Tuesday, there is no ill will between us. Mike is a good guy and I would not hesitate to do another inspection for him if asked. Hopefully this will close out this issue.

I would like to pass on my experience with PPI's to anyone interested. We do about 25 PPi's a year, I personally have done well over 100 in the last 6 years. They are not money makers in and of themselves but they are great advertising and we do pick-up work off of them. The fee we charge rarely covers all our time but the good 'word of mouth' advertising more than makes up for it. The only problem we ever have, up till now, has always been from the seller feeling we are too critical of the car. This has yet to cause us any extended problem as many owners turn around and have us correct any mechanical issues that come up during an inspection. We do have a note on our written report that I believe is good advice to anyone looking to have a PPI done, it states the following:
"This inspection is not a guaranty or certification of the vehicle or it's condition. The inspection is done in the most thorough, complete and honest manner we can provide. We strongly recommend that the buyer inspect the vehicle himself or herself. Norwood Performance Inc. assumes no responsibility if the vehicle does not meet the buyers' expectations, nor is there any warranty against future problems with the vehicle". The report then has a two page check list and a third page for hand written notes. I believe the reason we have had good luck with PPI's is that we don't state our opinion with respect to the condition, we stick to the facts, and we always try to avoid recommending a car or not. I believe our job on a PPI is to make clear to the buyer the condition (mechanically and cosmeticly) of the car, not to tell him if it is a good car or bad car, and then let him make an informed decision about the purchase. My average phone time with a buyer is about an hour, I can usually get a good idea as to what the buyer is looking for in that time and I normally go back to the car several times to look things over to answer specific questions. Doing this we have 100% success with buyers being happy with how we represented a car. We only inspect Ferrari and Lamborghini vehicles, we often get asked to inspect other makes but decline to do so because we don't have the experience to do the PPI propely. It is important to have a good knowledge base of how these cars age and what items need close inspection. We also believe it is equally important to be fair to the seller, that is why we try to only state facts about a car and to give precise descriptions and not interject our opinions. Also we can only report the condition of the car at the time it is in the shop, if things look like they have been 'patched-up' for an inspection we let the buyer and seller know. We look over service records, if there are none we make sure the buyer knows - this is the single most important item on an inspection for obvious reasons. One other thing we do is always try to go over the report with the seller as well prior to the buyer/seller conversation and negotiation. We want the report to be understood by both sides so that none of the information is misrepresented to gain an advangate in the negotiations. I am sure that after reading this many will think 'what is the value of a PPI?'. The value is that if you can't look the car over inperson you need a reliable source to be your eyes, ears, etc. so that you have a full understanding of the condition of the car you are trying to buy. If the person doing the inspection is knowlegable they will be able to give you information about the car that you would otherwise not have. The best possible situation is for the buyer to be present during the inspection. This does not happen often but this is my prefered situation for obvious reasons.

I am glad everything has worked out for Mike with respect to the inspection I did for him and I am sure he won't have any problem selling his 308. I also hope my comment about PPI's will be helpful to some of you when you go to buy or sell your next Ferrari or Lamborghini.

James Patterson
Norwood Performance

 

For the record, I have talked with Norwood's (James). He said he has seen this before and understands how it can happen.

(ooops...now I see who made that big post...Hi James)

I was there for the whole inspection.