F430's available now...I'm ticked!!! | Page 3 | FerrariChat

F430's available now...I'm ticked!!!

Discussion in '360/430' started by racerdj, Jul 14, 2005.

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  1. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    I was lucky enough to have a dealer take $5k and confirm me a car late 06 or early 07 5 states away from Florida.
     
  2. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    All dealership owners may not be as business-world successful as, say, Roger Penske (Scottsdale dealership) or Steve Wynn (Las Vegas dealership). Take Wynn's situation. He just spent a million dollars 2,500 times building his new hotel. Can you imagine how many of those big time business relationships want a F430. Penske must have huge demands from the large motoring world group he does business with. Our local dealer was and is a hugely successful business man before purchasing the local dealership.

    I honestly don't know what the "correct" allocation system is, but, the system is run by people, many who probably live in complex worlds. I was never able to even get on a 360 list. I came to realize there are those of us who would like to purchase a new F-car, and then there are those who are "players", for whatever reason. I'm real clear which group I belong to. I hold no grudges. Hollywood doesn't want me for a screen test either.
     
  3. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,477
    potomac
    i have wondered the same thing....perhaps it is the fact the demand for the ferraris is only this great in the us.....i believe they couldnt sell the car for over list in much of the rest of the world...remember in the gray market days that euro cars could be bought cheap in euro at any time.... maybe they need to allocate a higher percentage of the cars to the US,where we all knock each other over for these cars..............
     
  4. FJerry

    FJerry Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2004
    933
    United States
    Just as an FYI, my dealer has been nothing but straight forward with me- and I would be a first time customer. I gained an "in" via a friend who is a customer.

    I agree with the idea that the status quo has plenty to be criticized, but I cannot offer a viable alternative. I think in the end the more limited the car marque, the more of the "human nature" element you will see- eg- reward the good back scratchers. JMHO.

    Best regards,
    Jerry
     
  5. 5to1

    5to1 Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2004
    523
    Ferrari can't raise the MSRP because that would leave no backdoor margin for the dealers.

    Its not all rosy for the dealers. They are commited to take a certain allocation, regardless. Yes thats great when the car in question is the F430, and the market is pandering for it. But not so great when you have to shift 575's about to be replaced. Or 612's taking a dive in residuals.

    Also if the market takes a dive, the dealer still has to take his/her allocation.

    What this means for Ferrari is they have a nice steady stream of income. And a buffer against a fluctuating market. Something which is far more preferential for a large company.

    On the other hand, the smaller dealer can make hay when the market is good and chop his headcount and costs when its bad. Something much easier for a small company to do.
     
  6. 5to1

    5to1 Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2004
    523
    I see your point. But when people were deriding the Ford approach the fact that this was a one of deal didn't really come into the conversation.

    Instead it was a barrage of abuse against the way Ford was taking advantage of their customers. Etc, etc, etc.

    The simple point is the Ferrari approach shows far less regard towards the customer. They allow their dealers every opportunity to rip of their customers through:

    - the offer of bogus list positions to induce purchases
    - "used" cars with 200 miles of god knows what history

    I just find it interesting Ferrari aren't recieving anywhere near the level of criticism Ford did.
     
  7. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625
    Put yourself in the dealers shoes - would you rather alienate potential future Ferrari customers or your previous and regular Ferrari customers? There are only so many 430s to go around and they would love nothing more than to fill every order they can take but they are forced to make a business decision. Some day the market craze will be over and the customers that were there before the mania will most likely be there after it is over.
     
  8. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,477
    potomac
    dave, our local dealer takes a 10k deposit!!!! this becomes a good source of a interest free loan for the dealership....it used to be 2k, they raised it 4 years ago to 10k...
     
  9. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    This kind of stuff is what bothers me about some Ferrari people. Why put up with this kind of BS just to own the newest and shiniest Ferrari? I much rather put my money into a classic Ferrari, and join the group that own Ferraris because they know and love the history, rather than be someone who simply can afford one and has some kind of ego need to impress others. This not only happens in the "hot new car" world, but in the classic car world. It bugs me that half the people that own these cars know little or nothing about them.
     
  10. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,194
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
    Full Name:
    Angus Podgorney
    FNA INSISTS it is 10K. I asked.
    Stu, you're right, it is mostly BS. But, I still love'em. Not as pretty as they used to be, but neither are tattoos, etc. Someday the beauty will be back.
    In meantime, fast carries me over nicely :D
    And all the over-sticker v8 boneheads keep V12 prices comparatively low for tifosi :)
     
  11. nerd

    nerd F1 Rookie

    Oct 12, 2003
    2,535
    Coronado, CA
    Full Name:
    RSK
    OK, how did a debate about free market economics turn insulting……gee whiz.

    Hold on, I’m sure I can think up something derogatory about non-Ferrari owning Alfa driving folks who are morally superior to “some Ferrari people.”

    Never mind, it’s not worth the keystrokes.
     
  12. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    9,065
    SF
    FYI, There's a red 430 Spyder in the window of the Bentley/Lambo dealer in San Francisco on Van Ness Ave. It even has a price proudly displayed for the world to see, $345,000.
     
  13. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,803
    Northern Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    #63 watt, Jul 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    dave,

    it all sounds like the whine of a lambo, maybe your dealer heard it? :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. India Whiskey Charlie

    India Whiskey Charlie Formula Junior

    May 24, 2001
    554
    Way Out West
    FNA has as much to say about deposits as it does about selling over MSRP. Both of these issues are strictly controlled by the individual dealers. Some dealers don't even ask for a deposit.
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    We mark to market every second. We move instantly 24/7 worldwide. Ferrari S.p.A. is in the stone age. They, should be collecting these dollars, not giving them to speculators. They should raise msrp. 75K per 430 and flow product to demand. 75K x 4K units is 300 Million left on the table per year. Makes no sense to me.
     
  16. deeroff

    deeroff Karting
    BANNED

    Jan 19, 2004
    139
    Raising MSRP may not work IMO

    Let's see if I can 'splain.

    At introduction, the F430 has awesome demand. Supply is woefully behind and lists are full for 3-4 years if not the entire production run.

    The feeding frenzy is good for Ferrari as it continues to enhances its "hard to get" "must be in the club" marketing/mystique. That spills over to their other models.

    After a few months or a year, demand will slow somewhat (because of various factors including supply, the fact that it is not new and thus you are not the first one on the block, etc.) and the premium will be less on the open market. By the end of the production run, the cars will likely be had near or at MSRP as well.

    So, you can't raise the MSRP price to a level that is too high for the market down the road. Residual values will be crap AND owners will really be pissed that the car has depreciated so much. One of the keys to ownership of a Ferrari is that Ferraris retain a ton of their value (from MSRP of course, not the "flipped" or premium price).

    Ferrari knows all of this and they will continue to propagate it - the money they would earn from raising MSRP is not worth the damage to the market they have built the last *** years.

    My $0.02




     
  17. robiferretti

    robiferretti F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,299
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    didn't read the whole thread, but why not just sell the cars to owners with the understanding that if they sell it the car has to go to the next on the list for market value (being no highier then msrp) this way they are ensured a quick sale and everyone is treated fairly. eventually the car will work its way into the hands of someone who truely wants it and can appreciate it as more then a movable asset.

    if someone else posted a similar idea sorry, wasn't stealing your i promise
     
  18. the_jay

    the_jay Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2005
    1,104
    Murrieta, California
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I agree
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    They can raise msrp. without any problems. Look at the 360. When they pulled the plug one dealer I know had 40 undelivered orders. Some used 360's still sell for msrp. Ferrari has priced the 430 way below market price.
    Math is math and 300 million per year is a lot to leave on the table.
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Rob
    Why should Ferrari do anything except maximise their profits? If the market could bear more for your business you'd raise prices no? Why should Ferrari give away money to speculators? Why shouldn't they get what people are willing to pay?
     
  21. deeroff

    deeroff Karting
    BANNED

    Jan 19, 2004
    139
    Other than seting up a Dutch Auction, having buyer pay what the market will bear is not possible -- Nor, again, IMO, is it desireable for Ferrari for the reasons I set forth in my post above.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    We're plowing the same ground but why they don't raise the 430 msrp 75K still remains beyond me. Great Co.'s don't sell thier products for less than the market can bear period.
     
  23. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2004
    1,009
    at the dealer i go to once in a while, they will "move you up" on the list for 430's IF you give him something else to sell (360 or 355 ---the later in big demand) this way a F-enthusiast gets the 430 sooner, the dealer gets another car to sell ( he may take it in trade in at a lower trade in cost...essentially getting his mark-up over the MSRP wink wink) and another "entrylevel" F-car (360 or 355) gets recyled out on the market for those wanting to get into their first F-car. this winds up working and is more common, esp. since many F-cars are leased.
     
  24. 9software

    9software Karting

    Mar 31, 2004
    59
    Hampton Roads, VA
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    As much as paying over MSRP stinks, it does have its advantages.
    Look at the Lambos...charging $330k for a new Murc Spyder or $160k for a Gallardo. They drop like a rock after new and keep dropping until they bottom about 3-4 years later. Lambos are MSRP'd at market prices. They don't hold their value whereas Ferraris do.

    For the F430 Spyder, it could easily be a $300k MSRP car. It would still sell as you see people are paying more for that now. Instead, it's underpriced at $200k with a long waiting list. They can't really raise the price else you'd have a FLOOD of gray markets from Europe coming in cheaper. So you have the choice of waiting 4 years and buying one at the MSRP "discounted price" or buying it now at market.

    Plus here's one reason why people love Ferraris. If you're the lucky one to buy at MSRP early in the model production, you can drive your car up to 3 years and sell it for break-even or a profit. You can't even do that with a Honda, much less a $200k car.
     
  25. robiferretti

    robiferretti F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,299
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    Jim there is a difference here, I am saying the people and dealerships out to make a quick dirty buck by flipping cars takes away from the real enthusiasts waiting to get their hands on the cars. Ferrari as a company doesn't get any profits from the car flipping. If they would like to raise msrp thats fine, but I think as they since they have such a following they should make an effort to ensure the cars make it into the hands of those enthusiasts without having to go through those out to make $ off the car. JMO
     

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