New Dino Update

Oh great! The Porschefication of Ferrari...

 

This article sounds a little more realistic. http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/ferrari/05/dino/0405.html

Michael
(looking for 355B, red/blk, stick)

 

Ferrari will never go under 100k or want to develop a V6. It's contarary to their image.Plus they can never be price competitive in that segment.

 

The lights look very 997, while the side profile is also very (flattened) 997. I'm not a fan and hope this doesn't become reality (also it would probably mean greater production, lowering the exclusivity).

 

Who the hell sketched this piece? It's got Porsche all over it. The mirrors, the foglights, even the headlights. And EVERYBODY has done that C-pillar!

 

I for one would embrace the new Dino even though it would be a stretch for it to exceed the virtues of the new Porche Cayman S which already is quicker than the 911. Ferrari has come to the realization that the Boxter is a bonafide competitor and is hurting Ferrari in its handling and performance and they have a need to rise to the occaision and meet the Cayman S head on. In this day and age of grand tourers what is needed most is an entry level smaller Ferrari that can carve the twisties better than the 360/430, this all makes the Dino a better candidate for, well, a better all around daily driver that is smaller, lighter and better handling. Hurrah for Ferrari if they succeed. For Ferrari to produce a new Dino also quantifies the old Dino as a true Ferrari as some who do not know the true story often claim.

 

Ferrari are not set up to compete with Porsche on pricing nor are they interested in doing so.Quiet simply put they are not able to produce a car for less than 100K retail.

 

Not able to? More like they don't need to, which is the reason I don't get why this sketch even exists. I have to say it again, this is the worst prediction I've ever seen Motor Trend make.

But going with Gary, IF they do this correctly, i.e. completely ignore Motor Trend, it would be very interesting to see, if the production numbers weren't obscene and every other car on the block were this new Dino.

 

Usually these purported rumors are based on fact. You will usually hear little rumblings here and there and a scetch and then an artists rendering and finally a picture of a camo'd version driving on public roads. All this is very well orchastrated by the marketing department to let out little tidbits to pic interest early on and get the talk and anticipation going early, to pent things up a might so upon release they are snatched up. No manufacturer wants a flop so this is how they do it. My guess is that they are after another 308 in respect to total numbers or more.
They claim the Dino has a strong name identity in the U.S., this is probably their likely marketing target.

 

That sounds like a stupid idea but im sure it will be brilliant like every other Ferrari.

 

If Ferrari actually did this they should stay true to the name and keep the emblems off the car. Make it a less expensive Ferrari for people 'in the know'.. at least for a while.

C.

 

Guys, I fail to see how this would be a mistake for Ferrrari. I, for one, would love a smaller, lighter, more basic bones Ferrari (not a Dino) and would pay 100k for it. Hell, I've been saying for years that if Ferrari built an Elise they could charge twice as much and they would sell every one they could build. As far as watering down the image, again, look at the Elise. Would any one say that was a bad move for Lotus?
George

 

I hardly belive that Ferrari would go down market for more cash if they're unwilling to raise the MSRP on the F430 to match the market demand...

 

why do the naysayers think this is so unlikely?

i think it's pretty clear that ferrari is being groomed to be floated. if they're gonna go public they need a long-term story.

they have three and only three options to forecast regular and material earnings growth over time:

(1) raise prices
(2) raise output of existing models
(3) introduce new models

that's pretty much it. they already do 1 pretty regularly - good for them their customers are relatively price-insensitive. they already do 2, much to the chagrin of many folks.

is 1 + 2 enough for long-term public earnings growth? it may be BUT are the public markets going to be willing to bet on that? ferrari HAS had some bad spots in the past - it can happen - no guarantees that the $200K car market is going to stay healthy in perpetuity.

so 3 makes a ton of sense. if they're angling for a float then they'd be IRRESPONSIBLE to not be investigating it, right?

hey - remember what people said about the porsche boxster before that came out. and never mind the ****storm on the cayenne. both of those cars have been VERY important to porsche's business, and by all accounts the 997 is a great car - the top end hasn't suffered as a result.

sure, they could juice the price increases, but that makes a risky business that much riskier - maybe more profitable in the near term, but it's not per se a great investment strategy, right?

doody.

 

I don't think moving down market that far would be good for Ferrari...

The hp is not enough and should land in the 400 hp area at the very least.

JMO if it hits at under a hundred grand..it still needs 400hp..

Paddle shifter needed for volume sales...

Its the development piece of the recently killed off maserati if I remember correctly.....

 

I think Ferrari does have a good long term story, a small boutique car manufacturer/race team. They've been doing it for a long time and been pretty successful at it.

Yes, the boomers are getting older and have more disposable income, but the real market for these cars is tiny. Porsche is learning that with the CGT, and Lambo, while having record years lately, isn't exactly flooding the market. There are millions of Ferrari fans out there, but very few (maybe less than 75000) worldwide that have decided to step up to the plate and buy one. Didn't FNA state once that there are ~15-17,000 owners in the USA, and they've been selling cars for 50 years?

The pool might be deep, but it isn't very wide.

 

I would welcome a "cheaper" Ferrari but with the proviso that it wasnt called Dino, I think to those of us that know the history behind the Dino name it wouldnt be a great idea to ruin a memory of a fantastic car.

The other proviso is that Ferrari shouldnt increase production beyond say 8000 units a year (still small when compared to Porsche) to retain some sort of exclusivity.

 

The fact of the matter is that Ferrari is actually in trouble. The edges of their market are being encroached upon (Lambo, Porsche, AM etc), and their parent company is in deeeep financial trouble. The company has invested in hundreds of millions of dollars in new production technology and manufacturing facilities. They have to generate far more revenue than they currently do. Many Ferrari enthusiasts are lulled into thinking that all is well with Ferrari because of the 'market' pricing of the 360/430 etc. In truth, Ferrari is becoming financially vulnerable, and the only way to overcome their dilema is to produce more models and much higher production numbers. It isn't coincidence that you aren't hearing much from Montezemolo or Todt anymore about Ferrari being exclusive and limiting their production numbers to 'about 4000' per year. The lesson from Porsche is sobering. Enthusiasts may not like it, but the Cayenne is huge sales success and has provided Porsche with financial numbers almost unheard of in the business. It is a certainty that Ferrari will announce new model ranges soon...and they will be far more accessible than the current products.

 

Interesting information. I never realized the Cayenne was that great of a sales success. I hope ferrari never makes an suv in kind. The small front engine 400hp 100 K dollar 911 competitor would be a good move. (especially since most of the R & D has been completed for the Maserati Spyder and coupe)

I would have thought the 4 door sedan Maserati would have been a marketing success. Has it been? Anybody know?

 

How would production compensate for this. I was under the impression that the factory was at about full capacity with its current production load. Would they build another factory (im assuming not), add onto the current one, or is that just a rumor about their current production potential. I am all for a smaller model. Also, 400 hp is ample. I think that the current hp wars are crazy, i mean i enjoy them, but honestly...400hp in a relatively light car is more than 98% of people need.

 

While I applaud the move to build a smaller Ferrari, as a Ferrari and Elise owner I hope that Ferrari does not take the Dino that far down. Mid sized, 5-800 lbs lighter than the 360 and not so damn small. The elise is a blast, tight and tossable but its no great fun for two people (one has to turn sideways).

I love the idea of a Dino, while I would love an 8cyl, even in the low 300hp, a 6 would still be ok. Ferrari fit and finish, the wourld class engine works. I could libe without 400 hp and a $150K car......all day.

I begged two dealers to take a deposit. One sent me and orde form, agreed to take the 10K and then when I got there to drop the check sai they had changed thier minds because Ferrari had not committed to produce as yet.....

I love the idea of a smaller lighter Ferrari. the 430/360 is HUGE.

Its drivers who want a Dino... all you egos want it to be $200k and a 35000lb gt car... same old thing.

 

I'm hearing two different rumors for the Dino. One mid-engined and a V6. The other is front engined V8. Anyone able to pin this down?

As far as being competitive with the Cayman, that won't take much. It only has 291 horsepower, and does 60 in 5.1. The Cayman costs $58K. If the Dino is in the $100K territory, now you are in with the 911 GT3, not the Cayman. The 997 version of the GT3 isn't out yet, but that car will be stiff competition.

I'm not sure they can muster up all that much interest in either the V6 mid-engine car or the V8 front engine car. The NSX was V6 mid-engine, but never sold well, even at price $20 below what is rumored for the Dino. Add Ferrari parts prices and maintenance, and I just do see many takers. If they go V8 front engine, I don't see much interest there either. There are so many front engine V8 two seaters to choose from already, all which would be much cheaper to maintain, some with much more power, and would make better daily drivers.

Ferrari needs to keep in mind, that there is no point for a buyer to purchase a lower priced Ferrari, if you blow the budget on Ferrari parts and service.

Back to the drivetrain layouts. The only unoccupied niche is a lower priced V8 mid-engine car. There is nothing in that category (in the US anyway).

Michael