Part of the suspension geometry has to do with how it mounts up to the tub and the transmission and engine. if any of those mounts are the problem then you have to design an entire new tub, engine block or transmission housing. yes the tub ot transmission housing might be flexing under the load. if it does then it will be a lot of work to redesign the componet test it to see if it corrects the issue.. The differences between to F2004 and the F2005 are quite small Other than the Areo package that the 2005 rules required The only other major change was the design of the suspension that allows greater flexability in adjustments. The problem is is they adjust it for grip it will eat up the tires at a rapid pace and the car get slower durring the race. Set it up to conserve the tires and the car has no grip. If you do the math it all points to suspension geometry.
Rob, I think you are missing an obvious point here. You state the differences between the F2004 and F2005 are quite small. Thus that IS the problem. We had 2 major rule changes and Ferrari did fnck all to their car to accommodate them. First we had wing position and size changes and Ferrari (unlike all the other competitive teams) just appear to have raised the front wing, etc. The Renault and McLaren front wings are very different (from Ferraris) and from last years cars. Then we had the single tyre rule ... and as you say Ferrari did bugger all, other than make it more adjustable. And this could quite as easiy be caused by poor downforce versus drag ... thus the other teams are getting more downforce for the same drag as Ferrari and thus loading the tyre and increasing grip over the Ferrari. Maybe ... but if all Ferrari did is make it more adjustable, they were asleep at the design wheel. This year is a completely different ball game and they were caught napping, or on holiday. Your comments show that they have NOT designed the car correctly for the single tyre rule and new aero rules ... the suspension adjustment is NOT the cause of the poor performance, just that they can make it faster by an aggressive adjustment. It all points to poor downforce and thus a tyre that is not being loaded and thus needs that aggressive suspension setting to make up for the lack of downforce. I still blame the aero design more than Bridgestone ... and Adrian Newey (ex-Williams, when Williams dominated) and now McLaren has always made brilliant aerodynamicly performing cars. Aero rules change ... and his car is fast!, over the years others will catch up. Again I think you are seeing a way to make the Ferrari faster (ie. suspension) but that is NOT the root cause IMO. Pete
What Ferrari really need to do is build a HYBRID version of the F2005!!!! The Hybrid F2005 should be outsourced to Lexus The aerodynamics engineers who won 6 titles in a row should all be fired Aerodynamics outsourced to Hyundai! The management that has lead the team to 6 titles in a row should all be fired Managment should be outsourced to the good old ENRON boys! Rubens and Michael that have brought 6 titles in a row should also be fired I think NASCAR drivers are better than those two useless good for nothing! Bridgestone contract should be torn up and thrown in the bin too Ferrari should use second hand tires... this will maximize grip! Jean Todt who won 6 titles in a row for Ferrari should also be fired He should be replaced by Paul Stoddart. Paul Stoddart would do a fantastic job at Ferrari. He would have a new Australian girl in the pits every race. Atleast there will be some variety!!!! THIS THREAD IS ABSOLUTE CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM] [SARCASM]
LOL ... your point is valid, except for one thing: It took this same team of people something like (correct me if I am wrong) 5 years to win their first for Ferrari. And then the rules were static. With the rules changing every year ... well they don't have the 5 years to get it right! Look I hope I am wrong ... but they are not radical thinkers (Ferrari never have been ... and yes well aware the the core team are not Italians any more, but conservative is the companies moto). Pete
Pete the point is that is the core of Ferrari.... take it or leave it! Ferrari have a rigid professional structure with set protocols on how to do things. You want radical thinkers... start supporting BAR Honda! BAR Honda are REAL RADICAL!!!! Radical Drivers Radical fuel tanks Radical interpretation of the rules Radical pit strategy Hack BAR Honda even have a radical management structure It changes every 2 MONTHS!!!!!!!! I like my conservative Ferrari Team... The team made us wait 2 decades without a championship... I waited! I will try to be alive till the next time Ferrari start winning! COMMENTS LIKE Fire Jean Todt Fire Rubens make me mad!!!! NAME 1 PERSON THAT IS AVAILABLE TODAY (right now) THAT CAN DO A BETTER JOB THAN THEM AT FERRARI!!!! I well help you guys... NO ONE!!!! Yes, Kimi could do a better job... but he has a contract. He won't quit today and join Ferrari! Yes, Paul Stoddart could do a better job... but he is busy running other team into the ground!
The funny thing is if you take a look at the current issue of race tech the feel that the Ferrari front wing design is the the most advanced in the field in terms of wing area and drag reduction. They also feel the chin wing is the best solution also. I am not 100 sure on all of there findings but just by the way that Ferrari is talking is sounds like suspension issues not Aero issues.
Okay ... interesting and I for one am no wing expert, just watching cars run away from the Ferraris with what appears to be heaps more grip, thus: - Better mechanical grip (ie suspension) is one. - Better aero grip is another. - Better tyre grip is the last. Ferrari has traditionally been right up the top with mechanical grip ... but ofcourse they may have messed it up this time ... maybe trying to be radical They all are so integral ... and I must admit to never really fully believing what Ferrari tell us (after all, all those engine fails years ago were definitely NOT electrical failures!). Imperial, Relax about the sacking comments. Many on this site (including me) have little respect for RB as a racing driver. Yes he is a fast driver but no racer and we (for a large degree of fun) like to have a go at him every now and then. I do not think we need to sack everybody, but I do think some changes in personal is a good thing to keep the team vibrant and thinking. Change is a good thing I will though be most interested in our conversations about this time next season ... I for one no you will be still passionately supporting Ferrari. Me, well, I am not sure. I am starting to believe that I was such a strong Ferrari supporter for so many years due to the under dog status they had and the fact that they really needed (appeared to) our help. It was just not the same once they started winning everything ... and I am not getting the right feelings this year either. I feel more like kicking them when they are down. I guess that might be a sign that I am still emotionally involved with the team ... but I really do feel a little like I have lost my team. The person who I feel for the most is MS ... he rightly deserves to hang up his helmet on top, and I just think Ferrari are not going to get back to the top for the next few years. Pete
A couple of things to remember is with poor Aero grip the car will be worse on highspeed corners than slow speed corners. With mechanical grip a car is going to suck everywhere. To me it looks like the Ferrari does not corner well anywhere but does have good straight line speeds so the Aero drag cannot be that bad. It just seems as if Ferrai cannot find a sweet spot on setup either it grips like a magnet to cast iron, or it grips like a magnet to teflon. The problem is they cannot get good grip and keep the tires alive.
Psk wrote : Ferrari has traditionally been right up the top with mechanical grip ... but ofcourse they may have messed it up this time ... maybe trying to be radical '' Actually Marc Gene , when he arrived at Ferrari as a test driver , said that he was impressed with the aerodinamics and electronics of the car. You should keep in mind that Ferrari was at the front of aero testing in F1. Russian M3 dude , let me tell you a big secret , Rubinho was also responsable for the championships won by Ferrari 2000-2005 , and in many cases he could beat the **** out of the german spoiled driver . Oh yes , team orders , don`t you think he`s frustrated and pissed off for not having a chance to beat Schumi ? Real Ferrari tifosi have to thank Rubinho for what he did all these years !
You´re wrong, I think. Rules changed a lot (grooved tires, narrower cars, electronics ban and later electronics restitution...) in those 5 years, and changed again while Ferrari was in the top, so I think that´s not the point.
