Carbs: Manometer Vs. SK | FerrariChat

Carbs: Manometer Vs. SK

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by pma1010, Jul 25, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    A couple of years ago when I had the intake manifolds off the 308 and we pried off the (3/16th or so) steel tubular manifold from both intake manifolds and pressed in custom made vacuum nipples. The purpose was two-fold. First, with an appropriate network of silicon hose and connectors, to provide a multi-cylinder vacuum source for an advance sensor on my Electromotive HPX ignition system; second, was to provide the ability to hook up a set of (mercury) manometers to sync the carbs.

    First piece works, and has worked, fine. Dials in a bit more advance at partial throttle/overrun/idle, and should help fuel consumption.

    Second piece has been more of a challenge, and invariably I have pulled out the SK. Well, I thought I had the carbs sync'd pretty well, but when my Porsche owning neighbor opined he could hear the carbs weren't quite right, I figured I'd have another go. Nothing like a challenge. Having checked/reset the float heights and disconnected the linkages between F, R, I sync'd all barrels to within 1/2 kg or each other. All were now flowing 5 1/2 kg (per minute I assume). Car sounded good. Drove well.

    However, the "little man in the back of my head" was saying "try the manometers again". So, I hooked them up and saw a spread of about 1 1/2 inches high to low across the barrels. (This is with P6 cams where there's not a lot of vacuum to start -- typically 8 to 10 inches with a set of restrictors in the lines). Well the first piece is figuring out how you adjust them. Of course, it helps to remember higher flow equates to lower vacuum...

    Anyway, an hour of hot work later, the variation in vacuum was down to 1/4 inch. A ten degree turn of the main throttle screws would make a difference, so it is a fine adjustment. After reconnecting the linkage and being careful to get the front and back pulling equally/at the same time (a sixteenth of a turn made a difference here) I took a short spin up the road. Difference is extraordinary. Spins up and accelerates much more quickly. I had thought a slight stumbling low down was an artifact of lumpy cams (the P6s) and big (44 DCNF) carbs running larger (34mm) chokes. Completely gone. Can really feel the lighter weight flywheel now.

    Nice when there's a happy ending,
    Philip
     
  2. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,441
    B.C., Canada
    Phil, what manometer are you using? A mechanic in our car club showed us at the last meeting, manometers he's getting for his shop made by Mac tools and will bring more in to sell if members were interested.

    I've been using my SK meter for all of this time, I double-check after setting by listening with a tube down the carb throats and I don't really notice any difference in sound, but then again, there's alot of noise from that engine ;)
     
  3. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart
    Of course, it helps to remember higher flow equates to lower vacuum...

    Phil
    Don't mean to hijack your post but you made the above comment which is a concept I wasn't aware of and don't understand. When I was trying to syn my carbs I was getting high readings on my SK1....8 to 9 but all throats were balanced (kinda). If I interpret your comment correctly that would mean I had little vacuum. Yes/No?? And if that is true then the high reading would indicate my carbs where leaking vacuum Yes/No?? Please expand. I sprayed some carb cleaner carefully at certain spots and the RPM's increased. I decide to rebuild them. Incidently I order rebuild kits from Weber Carbs Direct over a month ago ($136) and asked for 5 bolt tops which was listed in their catalogue as being in stock. When they arrive there was 4 bolt gasket. I told them and they said that they would send the correct ones. Well 4 weeks later and many calls they told me they can't get them. I've since reorder from Pierce Manifolds and I'm waiting for the 5 bolt gaskets to arrive. Sorry for the long comments but I wanted to alert anyone that was thinking of ordering rebuild kits that Weber Carbs Direct doesn't have the 5 bolt kind. Also I was disappointed with the customer service. Nuf said. Anyone need some new 4 bolt gaskets for 40 DCNFs (4 of them) let me know and you can have them.
     
  4. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 9, 2005
    854
    Bethesda
    Full Name:
    tom berlin
    You can four tube mercury set-up for motorcycles for about $60-$70.
    The advantage is that vacuum changes with engine speed, with what are called carb sticks you are watching all 4 carbs all the time. Sure made my life more pleasant. Now if I could only get them back from the kid who borrowed them I'd be set.
    Tom
     
  5. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    I used 2 "carb sticks", each with 4 columns, available from JC Whitney or similar sources. I don't recall price, but do recall they were cheap. The trick part of the puzzle was the machining of the "nipples" to fit into the intake manifolds. We machined from brass and pressed in.

    Peter, I had the SK so I really couldn't see read any difference. Sounded good, ran well. Then I put the mercury columns on. Leads to a new level of precision. Next time you try sync'ing, turn one of the throttle screws 1/16th or 1/32nd of a turn. Can you see any difference in the airflow?

    Bottom line: You just can't get the precision with the SK you can with the mercury columns and, yes, I can definitely feel the difference on the road.
     
  6. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Less vacuum than if you were drawing lower levels of air, yes. Vacuum and airflow are inverse. Can't opine on absolute level. Also, remember, the port I am referring to is below the throttle plate.

    If you spray something flamable like carb cleaner around the base of the carbs and the throttle shafts (not in the venturis) and the RPM increases then yes, you have a leak.

    If you are recording high airflow at a normal level of idle (850 or so) that would also suggest low vacuum and a leak.
    HTH,
    Philip
     
  7. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart

    Philip
    Thanks that's interesting...is that some law of physics I forgot or didn't learn or does that just apply to carburator principals and theory?
     
  8. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    I think it is a commonly(?) understood component of fluid dynamics -- why aeroplanes fly etc.
    Philip
     
  9. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,441
    B.C., Canada
    Thanks!
     
  10. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart
    I know that the air over the wing goes further therefore faster and creates lift i.e. vacuum but wasn't sure that means more air. Now I know.
     

Share This Page