HELP!! Slow down light coming on!! Please help 2 day old FCar owner!! :-)

Well cripes!!
Just got the 328 yesterday and had issues with it yesterday while driving on the freeway.

First time I drove it, I had the light come on for a second while getting on the freeway. Then not again the rest of the drive. Speeds were never over 60. Temps were in the mid-90s.

Second time yesterday the temps were the same. Got on the freeway and light came on and then went off after a second. Then continued driving. It came on halfway to Milwaukee and stayed on for the duration of the drive. I know I should usually freak out and pull over when it comes on but all the other sensors/temps/gauges seemed fine. The ONLY thing that seemed a little funny was when the light would come on, it would feel like I lost about 5% or so of power (even though the tach didn't move), but then the power would come right back, even though the light was staying on. I could tell when the light would come on as I could "feel it" come on while doing 80 or so on the freeway. When it came on while accelerating, I did not notice ANY loss of power. This loss did not FEEL like half the bank shutting down either.

When I would slow to 65 on the freeway, the light STILL stayed on. When I stopped at a gas station, the light stayed on till I shut the car off. When I turned it back on after getting a soda, it started without ANY problem and the light was off, until I got back on the freeway.

UPDATE - Tonight I took it out for a VERY sprited run to make the light come on. It didn't at first but did when I was getting on the freeway. It was on only while I was on the on ramp giving her, then was off for the rest of the 3 mile stretch at about 75 miles per hour. Then I went to some backroads and got it to come on again with some pretty spirited driving. It went off as I was driving home for about 3 minutes. After I pulled in the drive, I hopped out immediately and took a look under it to see the cat. I figured it would be red hot if that light was just on. It was NOT. Hmmmm. Wouldn't it still be hot???

Again, my operating temps were not much different tonight as they were in the 95 degree freeway driving I was doing yesterday. But the outside temps were around 75.

Here is the funny thing too....The owner had it emissions-tested in California recently and it passed. This was about 4 weeks ago. If it was burning fuel in the cat or letting unburnt fuel out, wouldn't it have NOT passed those strict California tests??

I don't have emissions here and was looking to go to test pipes anyway. This would take away that wire/sensor anyway. Would this be covering up a problem I might have?? Could it be the sensor/wire?? Would the test pipes reduce the overheating problem?? Or would they cover it up?? And then would I just have to keep my eye on the other gauges??

I ask this, as I was working today I saw a 355 parked in a dentist's office. I stopped in and asked to see the owner and said I had a Ferrari. He was happy to chat. Anyway, he said HE had issues too and the local guy in town cleaned off his wire connection and now it works just fine. I liked hearing that.

I called the owner and he gave me some feedback about the light. Basically, he has had issues with it for awhile. Like two years. And he was METICULOUS about everything else so that made me feel a little better. He told me that if that light came on it would mean the cat was 1600 or so degrees. I knew this and was reassured HE knew it. He also then told me that if I wiggled the wire (and directed me to where it was) that the light would shut off. Anyway, I know this is NOT a good thing to have happen. Yet the rest of the car seems SO perfect. NO oil leaks, NO start-up issues. Pulls well. Brakes well. And on and on.


Finally, I took pics of the sensor wire and the cat. It seems like a pretty crazy setup. The wire looks to be a braided wire but seems pretty long for the application. Like there is a LOT of loose slack in the sensor wire. It does go into the cat, but also rests ON the cat as it is kind of hanging down and draping over it. Is this normal?? I can post pics of it, if you want me to.

Hmmmm.

Any ideas?? I would LOVE for someone to call me about it. Or feel free to post any ideas.

Bill
(608)219-7396

 

PM's now working.

 

We'll see. I hope someone calls me or posts saying, "Oh yeah, I know EXACTLY what the problem is. It is............"

That's what I am hoping for!!

We'll have to go out on a drive sometime when this problem gets cleared up!!

Bill

 

Awesome help guys. I am going to try that.

I am also going to take it to the local Ferrari guy in an hour and have him drvie it to check it out. When I told him what was going on, he didn't seem to think it was a huge deal. He thought it might be a sensor or a single cylinder issue. He is thinking spark plug or wire.

"Darolls" last night told me he thought it was a plug or wire also. Makes me feel like I have a fighting chance in making it out of this one without a MAJOR issue!!

So the guy today is going to check the cat temps with his own sensor-type tool (don't know what he will be using and I forgot the name). This should be a pretty sure-fire way of telling how serious my problem is.

I am hoping it isn't a huge issue as the Ferrari Challenge is this weekend up at Road America and I am DYING to go!!

P.S. Thanks for the "2 day old" compliment. I know I am above-average in my development for my age. My mom read to me while she was pregnant. You can learn a lot in the womb!! ;-)

Hey 91TR.
Did you just call my 328 "dumb"?? Them's fightin' words!! ;-)

 

YESSSSSSSS. I think.......

Okay, so I took it in today to the shop. I took it to someone who was recommended by just about everyone I have talked to around these parts. His name is Cory and he owns Colector's Choice in Dane, WI.

I think this guy borders on pure Ferrari genius. So he pretty much tells me, from what I am describing, I don't have an issue with the cat overheating and he would bet anything it is the "pyro box". More on that later....

Anyway, he asked me to "bring it in HOT" with the light on. So I did. I gave her on the backroads leading to his place and showed up with the light having been on for a SOLID 15 minutes of spirited driving. I figured what the heck, I am going to show up with this thing as hot as I can make it. SO I pull in with the light still on and he was pretty much ready to go. I got out and quick looked at the cat. Nothing. Not red at ALL. So he takes a look and tells me that, if the light were on for as long as it was, and it was dumping gas that thing would be BEET RED. It wasn't. So he opens the decklid and says my engine doesn't even feel as hot as some he has seen with a TRUE gas-dumping problem.

He then measures the cat with his laser-beam infrared sensor. It reads 480 degrees. This is about 4 minutes after I shut it off. So he wants to go for a drive to see it in action. We get back in and start it up and he has me open it up in 4th gear doing about 100 until the light comes on. It does immediately and he has me continue for about 20 seconds to make sure it is good and hot. He has me pulls over the car right on the road (we were on the backroads) and runs out and measures the temps. 550 degrees Fahrenheit. And the light was STILL on. He measure exhaust fumes, the cat, the pipes leading into and out of the cat, and about everything on the car.

The light was coming on which means the cat was supposedly getting exhaust fumes of over 1600+F degrees. But when Cory looked at it and measured it , the cat was TRULY at 550-570F degrees and only 330-360F in the pipe leading in and out of the cat at numerous times on the trip down that long road. That is actually a VERY good temp for this car instead of the catastrophic readings the computer was giving me!! Especially in todays 95 degree heat and with the kind of driving I was doing (basically track-like driving).

Oil temps remained pretty constant and water temps did too, with only SLIGHT elevations while hammering on it for extended periods during our testing. He actually remarked as to how cool the car was running compared to some he has seen over the years.

So then he starts to tinker with it. There is basically a relay sensor that goes form the cat into a computer box. All of this is found in the trunk on the right hand side under the carpet. There are a few fused "boxes"/CPUs/ etc and a ton of wires but the one in question is the 3x4 box referred to the TCW (I think) in the owners manual. This box (referred to him as "Pyro Box") measures the temp of the exhaust gases in the cat. All of the sudden the light goes off. He asks me if it is off. I said it was. Basically, he unplugged the "box". I then shut off the car and he reconnects the box and then DISCONNECTS the wire sensor from it by unscrewing the two screws that connected the sensor relay to the box. When "reset" as it was, the sensor light should never come on if the relay is not connected. The CPU/brainbox should pretty much think everything is okay as there is NO HEAT to trip the transistor relay in the "box". Thus the box shouldn't send a message to the CPU to turn the light on.

With the sensor wire removed from the computer box completely, the stupid light STILL came on within a mile or so of going down the road. Stupid computers!! So now it was pretty much determined that I needed a new "pyro box". This is EXACTLY what he said before I even got there!!

SO basically, he took the wire connected to the cat and taped the ends and zip tied it in the little compartment that the rest of the wires were in. On a side note, he does NOT like that braided relay wire as it pretty much touches all the other wires and he said, with time, since it it braided metal, would "saw" on the other wires and possibly short one of them out in the future after cutting through the coatings. Something to look out for on your cars.

The "loss of power" that had occured was either

1. In my own head - His statement, not mine.
2. A possible brief "lessening" of the fuel supply by the CPU after being told by the pyro box that the cat was too hot. - The owners manual, after reading that section makes it sound like this is something it MAY do to "save itself" from pumping too much gas into the gas. So it basically restricts its own fuel. This is still up in the air, but it APPEARS from the reading, that this may be true.
3 - POSSIBLE plug or wire malfunction in ONE cylinder - This, in his opinion is EXTREMELY unlikely based on the car's performance and idling, which is good. In fact, he said, in these cars, they really don't have enough horse to where you it wouldn't be completely obvious if even ONE cylinder was not firing. He said the car would really bog down the way we were driving it.

On an interesting note, the car did NOT lose power even ONCE on the drive home after the pyro box was disconnected!! That was a good sign.

So basically, I am running without ANY warning system in my cat. But after the tests, I am not worried about the temps in it. That light ended up scaring me more than the fear of "dumping gas" does.

Next week, I am coming in to have test-pipes put on for me anyway. This would remove the sensor and the need for the sensor/pyro box anyway. Cory is going to fabricate my pipes. He has installed Hyperflows and others and said they often are not as good. Said the welds are often shoddy enough to turn them from a nice circular size to more of a oval. He said they then leak, which is pretty much like putting a blow torch inside your bay. Not good. His test pipes will also probably be cheaper and they will be stainless with a gloss black high-temp finish. The 20 or so Vipers, race-Viper, 4 Panteras, Ferraris, and Indy Car he has in his shop right now lead me to believe he can do the job. Hell, when he was discussing melting temps of 304 stainless, 5-0-something stainless, and other metals when we were first discussing the lack of red cat led me to believe he knows what the heck he is doing!!

As I stated before, the pipes, after spirited driving, were a mere 350F degrees as compared to the cat which was 550-570F degrees. This should do one of three things.........

1. Remove a LOT of unnesessary heat from my engine compartment, thus keeping my engine bay cooler. By getting rid of that Cat, I am getting rid of a piece right in the middle of the bay that is 550F degrees and making it 350Fdegrees by installing a free flowing pipe!! This is ALWAYS good.

2. Make my exhaust more "free flowing" (which is ALWAYS good IMO) and pretty much turning it into a Euro-version 328. This is also good.

3. Make it scream!! Is this good??

I really need to put in a plug for Cory. He knows his stuff. Knew it before I got there. And doesn't charge and arm and a leg. Most of the cars he was servicing when I was there were from Chicago. That's two hours away from here and with dealers right there in their own backyard. Yet they come here.

He gets $85 an hour which is a VERY reasonable rate and you can BET I will be referring anyone I know to him. I am not easily impressed by mechanics as there are a LOT who are out to screw the average guy, but walked away today knowing I would be back for LIFE.

Thanks Cory!!

 

Russ,
I did do numerous searches on it and saw that as a possibilty. I will be keeping the unit (as I will also be keeping the cat) and giving that unit a good scrubbing with alcohol at my leisure.

DGS,
Duh duh duh duh duh...........Another one bites the dust.........duh duh duh duh duh..........another one bites the dust!!!!! I think you're right!! But we'll see what happens after a good cleaning.

I am still going to test pipes anyway!!
That temperature difference between the pipes and the cat was EYE-OPENING!! Pretty much solidifies what i was already going to do.

 

I saw the reference to the Lamda Loop. Could you explain that a little more??

Does it hurt the car?? Could it?? Or is it an emissions thing.

To be honest, I could give a rat's raw ass about emissions. I am a little bitter about buying this car and having to pay a couple thousand in taxes at my local DMV. I had to pay the car taxes AND my property taxes (Wisconsin has the highest property taxes per capita in the COUNTRY!!) the same DAY last week. You'll have to pardon me if I don't feel likie bending over and taking it in the can AGAIN from my lovely state government.

So tell me about that Lambda loop.......

 

Great info!!! Thanks for that. I am going to share that with my mechanic.

Not a lot of city driving here. I love outside of Madison and most of my driving will be in farmland and backroads with curves and highspeeds!!!

So I may want to check plugs often??