Saw this one 2 weeks ago out here in the Desert during a base tour where cameras were allowed (Which is practically nowhere around here). Image Unavailable, Please Login
that pic isnt a very good one, heres one thats cropped differently, without the F18. It was taken from a good distance away, and it was hot that day so it's a little blurry. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That is a pretty cool pic considering you took it yourself. It must have been awe inspiring to see in person. I read that the F22 has the radar cross section of a bee! That's amazing considering its a full on fighter.
In all honesty I didnt take it myself. Someone I was there with took it. The tour organizer forgot to put in my request to bring a camera, so I couldnt bring mine, but nevertheless it is a cool pic. Unforunately I didnt see it fly, but the F18 (i see them often, which is strange. why is a navy jet so far from any NAS?) did take off while i wsa out there.
We see them all the time around here. I ate at a resteraunt in Marietta GA recently and one was shooting touch and gos at Dobbins here. He flew right over us on final a number of times. Very cool plane! Stupid expensive, like $350 million each. Terry
Ive seen F-22's flying in formation over the lockead base here in Marietta, GA. Quite a sight now and then. As for been the most "secret" yeah right, some secret. Discovery channel had a huge 2 hour special like a year ago on the shootout between the boeing and the F-22. They showed the vertical takeoff and landing procedures, the in turn flight (the F-22 can bend its rear thrusters up and down to make it turn faster) as well as radar x-sections. Some secret....
If you read Ben Rich's book "Skunkworks" you'll find out why they cost so much. He's not a fun of the "bluesuit". He ran the Skunkworks for 15 years or so, worked there his entire working career, and isn't a fun of the government procurement system at all. Interesting reading. He was in charge of the SR71 & the Stealth Fighter F-117, so he may know about what he speaks. Art
The show must have been about the JSF. It takes off vertically, the f-22 doesnt. The F-22 development began over a decade ago and was classified for a long time, although i dont know specifics. As for secrets, the actual radar cross section is a secret. They even classify things like power output of military radars (pictures arent even allowed of the front of any jet with the nose open) The actual stealth technology is classified as well, although ive heard some rumors on how they do it it in the F-117. When I say the government takes security and keeping classified information classified seriously I mean it.
What base did you go on a tour of and take the pic at? I'm pretty sure that the Air Force has some F18's, but there is a naval air base in Nevada. I think the F22 costs about 130Million, with costs expected to come down some as production increases and economy of scale increases in time. 130 Million is A LOT for 1 aircraft, but I read aboout an exercise where they had 8 F15's flown by F22 pilots face off against 2 F22 and the F22's completely annihilated the F15's. The guys flying the F15's said they didnt even see them coming and had no warning at all!! So when you figures that an F15 costs 30 Million, but a single F22 can do the work of 3 or 4 of them its not as bad. Plus the F15's are getting old and I remember hearing that it would cost something like 90% of what it would cost to just replace them with F22's as it would to upgrade them.
The RAPTOR! It is beyond anything in the current inventory. Yep, Discovery channel highlighted it. The only time an enemy fighter jet pilot will see the Raptor, is when he is floating down to earth in his parachute. The Air Force wanted to test the mettle of the Raptor against the best F-15 Eagle pilots in a simulated wargame. No mercy. Four Eagles against one Raptor. The F-15 Eagle pilots never saw it, they never had a chance to engage it, all they heard was the Raptor pilot calling missle shots. One by one, the F-15's were 'killed'. That is ONE NASTY JET!
I don't understand this post at all. Besides talking about the wrong aircraft, what is all this secret nonsense? who said anything about a secret? declassified means not secret.
Art.... I just finished Ben Rich's book the other day..........found it quite interesting actually (a bit too much fluff for me where he could have been more interesting.....but the stuff is not classified as top secret unless it reall is I guess)............and you are spot on about the government and military bureaucracy of procurement. Think it's bad down there......you oughta see how badly it works in "Kanaduh"...........LOL !!
That is a fantastic book. I like the story where they put the first Have Blue model on the pole for radar testing and the technician told them it had fallen off because all he could see was the pole on radar. I don't remember if it is in the book, but the F-117 is unstable in all three axes, w/o computers a pilot would be unable to even cruise, much less take off and land. Pretty amazing for a design started thirty years ago, before anything like today's computing power was available to the engineers.
Excellent book. Great part was having to re-design a 'stealthy' test-pole for the Have Blue mockup? And how about all that secret liquid H2 in downtown Burbank?! (!!!) I've also had the oppertunity to meet SR-71 pilot (and author of "Sled Driver" an exquisit SR book) Brian Shul. He had some intresting stories too. Like when the SR-71 was at it's still "unclassified top speed" of Mach 3.5, it has approx 3" of travel REMAINING on the afterburner throttles...
From what I saw and heard on the 2 hour Show about boing and Lockeed going head to head to create the next fighter plane for the U.S gov. The F22 can take off vertically that was one of the big things the air force was looking at. And is also one reason why Lockeed got the contract was due to its performance in the vertical part of the testing. Boings aircraft was having issues holding in one spot or someting...
The F-22 cannot take off vertically. You are talking about the F-35 JSF(Joint Strike Fighter) which is a fighter/attack platform as opposed to the F-22 fighter platform. The F-35 will replace the F-18 in the Navy, F-18 and Harrier for the Marines (the Marines will be receiving the S/VTOL Short/Vertical Takeoff and Landing version), and the F-16 for the Air Force. There was a competition between a Boeing/Lockheed/General Dyanamics team and Northrop Grumman regarding the ATF (Advanced Tactical Fighter) though. Northrop brought the YF-23 to the table which slightly resembled the F-22 but was a faster slightly less manueverable design. In the end the Air Force decided on the F-22. It's about time we started getting the Raptors, I believe there is one full squadron currently (might not be full yet but am too lazy to research right now) after all this plane has been almost 20 years in years in the making. (The competition and companies were originally announced in 1986 with the first flight of the YF-22 prototype happening in 1990)
it's amazing how arrogant the americans are when it comes to aviation tech. did u know dat even the mig-31 foxbat had "stealth" detecting avionics? dat was a 30 yr old plane! the f-22 lightning is equipped with thrust vectoring,low radar signatures, inboard weapons bays,super-cruise and costs $350-420million EACH. the su-37 flanker/su-32 is ALSO equipped with 3D thrust vectoring,low-radar signatures,super-cruise and costs.....$75-100million.yay america. Image Unavailable, Please Login
And I would be willing to bet that the Raptor, despite high costs, will handily take down any of the jets you mention...
I didn't realize the 31 could detect stealth technology, those F-117 pilots must be worried. Soooo many F-117s have been shot down, you know. If it got too out of hand, we always have the squadron of these bad boys parked a couple of hours from me... Image Unavailable, Please Login
What worries me is when some official claims that New Plane X has the radar signature of a goose. "Sir, we have a goose on radar at 40 thousand feet and travelling at 1400 miles per hour."
Yeah, but lets see Russia field a couple of squadrons of SU-37's. Last I heard they were not going into production.
