Anyone got any broken Ferrari tail lights? Or interested in LED tail lights?

I was inspired by Ryalex's post... my company makes replacement tail lights for various vehicles, all using automotive grade LED's (the same as you see in the new Cadillacs, BMW's, Mercedes, etc).

Right now we only service motorcycles and custom automotive applications, but I would like to get into doing some cars. I have been on these forums a few years now and I always hear about the difficulty of getting replacement parts for these cars due to lack of supply, high cost, etc, etc.

So it finally sunk in that there may be a market for replacement tail lights for Ferraris. They would look identical to OEM (although we generally do our lights in factory red and clear lenses - customers choice) and they all use LED's instead of bulbs. The LED's are significantly brighter, draw much less power, are more of a "pure red", turn on instantly, never burn out, etc, etc. We always do testing on the lens diffusion characteristics to ensure our replacement lights have an equal or (usually) greater light dispersion properties and we can make adjustments to the lens as necessary to be sure we're equal or better than factory.

In any new application, the first step is to get an OEM light and see what is involved in duplicating it. This includes being sure the materials are the same or better than stock, the mounting locations and tabs are all correctly placed in the replacement part, and so on.

I've been keeping my eyes on eBay the past few weeks and Ferrari lights are few and far between. I was wondering if anyone may have had an accident and has a light housing that's broken or cracked that they may want to part with? Or even a spare, or a water damaged one. This is sort of a side project for me, so I can't promise anything, but the first step is to get a light and check it out, and I don't want to invest too much until I see if it's possible/feasible.

Along those lines, can anyone tell me about part equivalency on Ferraris? I.e. does the 512M use the same tail light as the 355? What about the 348's, 360's, 550's, 575's, 308, 328, etc? Anyone know enough about the various models to say which lights are definitely different and which ones are definitely the same? What about the cost of OEM tail lights?

And the million dollar question - is anyone interested in a brighter-than-stock replacement tail light of equal or higher quality than stock that would be a drop in replacement utilizing all OEM connectors, but upgrades to LED's??? And at what price?

Thanks!

 

That sounds like a great idea. But, how much are we talking? Will you be making the red and amber lights? I ask because there is a 4 light set on most Ferraris, kind of a trademark. I am sure you know it would look wierd if only the red set were availible and not the amber. So, you have to realize you would be making a set of 4 and not the standard 2 like on most cars. I know I would be interested in them, to make my 78 308 look a little newer and hopefully keeping someone for running into me. If you would have had these a couple months ago, I probably would have just bought them. I had hell trying to get a single amber taillight for my car because the painshop misplaced it. I got lucky to find one on Ebay after 6 months of searching for one without an outrageous price. Do you guys also make Xenon headlights? I was thinking of doing a conversion on those as well. Since all of my windows are heavily tinted to include the front window, I need the extra power.

BTW, I know some of the cars are the same when it comes to interchangeable parts, but I will wait for an expert to let you know for sure. Sorry, I don't have a spare to get to you, but I can check around with some of my sources if no one here offers one, just pm me.

 

I have no idea on price... I know what it costs me to make injection molds and I know what my costs are to do the actual mold and the cost of the electronics. The missing data points are what the interest level is, and what exactly a given taillight is made of (i.e. how many molds required for a given application).

Most of our applications are a fair bit lower than the OEM price for factory replica lights. I've looked at various pics and it seems that on the round lights, some are white in the center and others are amber. I'm guessing this is a Euro vs. USA car thing? It also appears that each round tail light is a seperate assembly, or is there a right and left assembly that is 2 round lights connected together behind the bodywork? The amber vs. white center is no big deal - it's a two piece mold and the center can be any color. I'm hoping each round light fixture is a seperate piece rather than two circles connected behind the bodywork forming a single left and right light. Anyone know if the red part of the lens is screwed to the back plate or is it a one-piece glued together assembly? The whole thing would be LED - red LED's for brake, amber LED's for turn, and white LED's for the backup lights. This means the whole lens can be clear, or it can match OEM colors except with LED's inside rather than bulbs.

It appears from what I've seen that the 355, 360, 550, 575, 512M and the 456 all use the same tail light. I'd probably want to do that one first and see how it goes since the cost to make the molds is about the cost of a 355 and when you add in the electronics and cost of getting the first batch made it's about the same again! If that went well, then other applications would be next. It appears the 308/328 are the same, and the TR looks much like the 348. There are a lot of TR's out there so it would be a good one to do...not sure about #'s of 308/328's but I imagine there are a bunch out there too.

The next step is to call the dealer and get a price on the lights and see if I can find one... so.... if anyone has the aforementioned round light sitting around and is willing to part with it, I am interested! I'm trying to keep the cost down in case it's not do-able, so I would prefer a cheap light that's ratty or damaged or something. If someone has a good condition one I would be happy to "borrow" it, throw it on our CMM machine and measure it and then return it in likewise perfect condition after a week or so of measurements.

Re: the xenon lights - we don't make those. We're a machining and electronics shop so we're not equipped for that.... but you should be able to find a bulb that will work at almost any auto store. Or do you mean the HID conversion kits? The HID kits you can get on eBay but I don't know which ones are good and which aren't, sorry.

 

Thanks for the info on the Xenon light and HID conversion. I am just checking into it and need to read up. I have to admit, I know nothing of the conversion.

As far as the tail lights, I have only worked on my 308. I cannot speak for other models. Mine is a US edition with the clear lense inside the amber that you spoke of. You are correct, for my model. These are 4 seperate lights, they do not attach behind the frame work. I have one amber one sitting in my hands at the moment. I haven't dropped it at the shop yet. I will try to snap some shots of it and post them in a few minutes if you hang around. It appears to be glued with installtion screw ejecting from the housing. Hard to explain, better if I take pictures.

 

Ok, here are a few I snapped for you. Sorry the cat got in the way, hahah. This should at least give you a rough idea of what you are dealing with. The red one is almost the same if I remember correctly just a different lense.
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One more, it wouldn't let me add it for some reason.
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cool thread. i have a 308 and i have gone through the trouble to add the Euro front turn signal lenses on my last 2 308's. i would be interested in alternative choices for the tail lights as well. i would be more inlined to buy quality replacement lenses for a better price than oem, while adding the LED features. clear rear tail lights on a 308 dont really apeal to me, but i may change my mind after i see them. i have them in my Desert Runner truck.
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You might also examine the possibility of offering a retrofit kit for OEM tail light assemblies, that way you could manufacture one set of internals for a broad range of lamps.

This of course would depend on the ease of disassembly of the stock units.

 

Thanks for the info guys... the light does appear to be like most OEM lights where it's glued together. There are basically 2 ways they glue them, either a hot-glue like substance or a plastic welding glue that looks like water. If it's the hot glue stuff, you can get the light apart easily by dropping it in boiling water and the glue softens up, but if it's the welded type, it can only be cut apart and a new housing is generally a better way to go. How it's put together would affect whether a retrofit kit for LED's would be feasible...

For those reading the thread - still interested in finding an OEM light to measure up and check out, anyone got one?

 

Mike -

This is a great initiative, and one that I would be highly interested in. I love the "instant on / instant off" look of the LED and recognize it as a much better alternative to a conventional bulb. I have a 355B, and believe that the 355 does indeed share the same tail lights as a number of the Ferrari family. In terms of experimenting, this would probably be a good light to start with.

I wish I had an extra light to give you but I don't. I'll keep an eye out on eBay for one, as well as check with a few people who occassionaly have some spares.

But I look forward to your progress reports, and appreciate you bringing this to the interest of the FerrariChat community. Let's make this happen!

 

I have some......I've replaced a set and used a couple for ashtrays...


I'll see if I can find the ones I didn't cut up......

It occurred to me to rework them with the LEDs so they's make the "snowflake' pattern when they lit up.....

Is that what you'd do?????

The back up lights would need a circle of white LEDs to be effective. I think I paid about $175.oo each for the new ones, there's your budget.

 

308s are glued pretty tight........I had to hacksaw it open, to hold my Macanudo............

 

We are already working on LED tail lights (on the back of the Mondial Z project).

The light units that you refer are fitted to the 512M, 355, 360, 550 and 575 (the 456 is a one piece unit).

The lamp housings are two separate units, i.e., four are required in total for each car. They are not physically connected inside the car, but read on for other differences.

The centre lens is white on both types of lamp unit, however the turn indicator is fitted with an inner amber lens that is mounted about halfway along the chromed plastic tube that separates the centre part of the lamp (indicator/reverse light) from the outer annulus. This amber lens gives an amber tint on the indicator centre without needing to use a full amber plastic on the outer shell.

The whole assembly appears to be “welded” together and cannot be disassembled without destroying at least some of the unit. It is not hot glued.

The new cost in the UK is slightly over GBP80+VAT each, however as the reflector is integrated into only one of the lenses (cleverly designed into the diffuser annulus) you would need two, i.e., one side of the car, to be able to replicate the two different red lenses. The reflector back assembly is common to both units.

........

We are in the process of developing a common PCB for both types that will allow us to simply replace amber (turn) LEDs with white (reverse) LEDs on the separate units.

BTW the Mondial Z will also have bixenon headlamps (the same units as the F430) from Hella (Hella treat us as OEM).

 

The 3x8 series style lights were used on several cars including the 288 GTO, F40, 400/412, Mondial and Boxer. I believe there was a small difference on some models between European and US cars, but I can't recall exactly (elimination of the reverse light perhaps?).

I forgot in my earlier post that the F50 also has the 355 style tail lights.

BTW the Mondial Z tail lights will be based on the 355 style, not the earlier 3x8 type.

 

The red one has a reflector in the centre.

 

Mike any updates? Still interested.

 

Updates?

 

Status Update on LED plug and play conversions??

 

I am not sure about the other guys in Singapore who talked about it...

On my side, I have looked into it a bit and I believe it would be relatively easy to manufacture replacement parts. The problem is the interest is quite low and does not justify the cost of producing these the way we normally do (which is to outsource the injection molding).

Having said that, this year we are bringing our injection molding operation in-house and at that time, I think it could be done cost-effectively, although it would be sort of a pet-project of mine and probably something done on the side in addition to our regular product lines.

 

I believe if this thread were posted in the various individual-model areas of FChat, you'd find a lot more interest. I, for one, would be interested if these were made available. Mine are a bit faded, and I really like the idea of upgrading to LED lights.........

 

Slow down! You could be on to something here: There was a thread not long ago that would interest you. It ‘s called Melted / mis-shapen taillights, and was started by Manettino the Modern section.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76572&highlight=360+tail+light

Not knowing how to move a quote from another thread, here’s a sample:

Dave Handa: ”The challenge grill will make no difference....they all melt, and replacements I would assume will eventually melt as well. I agree with Willis, the bulb is too close to the lens. I think it is the back up light that causes the damage, as it seems to always be the inboard lights that melt. Replacements are not terribly expensive...I think Ferrari of Seattle charges $137 each, plus labor to install (you can easily do it yourself).”

If you could produce something that is warp free a whole pile of folks will be beating a track to your door, after all, how many thousand 360s are there in the U.S.?

Good luck

 

I would be interested in a set for a 328. I have been tinkering with the idea of replacing my rear amber lights with red ones. The only problem is there would be no reverse lights, if I used the standard red light on the rear. I already bought a set of front turn signal lenses (red) to replace the amber ones. Not fond of the amber.

 

any possible shots of the lights at night?

 

Over Christmas break I replaced the 308's OEM incandescent lamp bulbs for the following with replacement LED's:

four side marker lights (type 194)
two license plate lights (type 67)
two front parking lights (type 67)
two front turn signal lights (type 1156)

Only reason why I did not replace any of the rear lamps is simply down to the fact that some of the LED lamps are larger in diameter and would not fit into the rear housings from the back.

Overall, the effect is well worth doing, as the LED's are nice and bright, run cold to the touch, and do not consume much amperage - I figure that, with my parking lights lit, the total amperage draw on the car has been cut at least in half.

If any interest, I can post the specific details of my conversion.

Cheers - DM
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Dave,
I'd like more details....!

Greg
77 308