Well, I agree, and there's sort of the rub. When I worked at the dealership, I was in the presence of what was, truly, a REMARKABLE Ferrari collection! (Alloy 4-cam, 1st U.S. Daytona Spyder with 1,300 miles, alloy comp Daytona, F40, 288 GTO, 275 GTBC, 250 GTL, etc.) As a result, I am VERY into the history/mystique of these cars. Unfortunately, now I'M the one who has to pay the "maintenance" bill on this not-so-rare, not-so-over-the-top-performance car, and it's just very irritating. I really like the car, and I'm not looking for a reason to sell it. Likewise, I'm looking for the real reason not to......................
You can be into the history of these cars without owning them, I know of several historians that are not Ferrari owners. Now, if your car was a QV cabriolet in red/tan, I'd help take it off your hands...
I bought a used 2 post lift made by Mohawk. I got it used from Tool and Equipment Connection in North Attleboro, MA (www.tecequip.com). It's a 6,000 pound two post premium U.S. lift (no Chinese cheapo!). It was $2,500 installed, except for the electrical which I did myself. You can find amazing deals on used lifts. Virtually every city has at least one lift dealer and they often have used ones because shops are always trading in and upgrading. One of the trends with heavier SUVs these days is that the smaller lifts (perfectly suitable for a Ferrari) are being traded in on 10,000+ pound lifts capable of lifting these heavy vehicles. So, 6,000 and 7,000 pound lifts are cheap. I personally much prefer the 2 post lift because you can work on the suspension, etc. Some people prefer a 4 post--it's easier to get the car on and off the lift and is better for storage. (But I store my 308 on the lift in the winter and park the Mondial under it, leaving the other bay free for my wife's car.) Birdman
Sounds like you need a good drive in the car to remind you why you wanted it in the first place. A little hot now (and really bad humid), but give it a few weeks and the weather will be perfect for a mid-afternoon drive followed by a satisfying meal. Makes you realize that life doesn't get any better.
Birdman, I appreciate your lengthy and detailed response. I didn't quote it's entirety for etiquette reasons. Thanks for the tip concerning the used and two point lifts as I had never even thought of that. Dane
I agree with Birdman. Learn to work on the car yourself. Learn about the parts. For example: Bosche makes some of the electrics for the car. Why go to Ferrari to buy Bosche parts. Go to Bosche for 1/3 the price. I feel like I'm being ripped off every time I have to buy a part from a dealer regardless of what car I'm buying parts for. This is because I accidently saw a report early in my driving career that showed a markup factor of four. What they buy for a dollar, they sell for four, for those who don't understand markups. I also know that most dealerships make their Service Departments pay for the facilities including rent, utilities and so forth.. Then in the Monday morning sales meeting the Service Department gets hammered for not making a profit. So to avoid that, they mark up their parts cost. They also do everything they can to increase hours spent on the car, thus raising income. For example, a technician may be able to do a service in 20 hours. If book on the service is 40 hours, the customer will pay 40 hours. The Service department will make 20 hours of service on the deal and look good for the Monday Morning Madness Meeting. I guess you could say that I don't like and don't trust dealerships. If any of you work for a dealership, and I've hurt your feelings, please accept my appologies. These are just my feelings about them. Bob Wassam
What about the parts that are identical and interchangeable with other Italian and in some cases German cars? There should be some resource available to Ferrari owners for getting these shared parts from other places for much cheaper. Also, how do you guys feel with changing a broken Ferrari part with a much less expensive and much more reliable generic part that fits and is available at the local auto parts store? Now I'm not saying put in a Chevy 350 V8 if the motor needs an overhaul. But what about little things, gradually, like electronic components? Would that be generally frowned upon at resale time that there are some generic but reliable non Ferrari parts in the car?
Some very good points, I dont really know how it would look to some blue blood ferrariesta, but my car isnt in c.c. condition, its a week end driver that helps me unwind from the work week. A drive over 84 to the coast works wonders. For me, if it has an eletrical switch some where under the dash, thats not a Ferrari NOS, but get my 348 back on the road, Im good to go.
Before condemming Ferrari dealers for parts price gouging, check the tariffs on import parts. Uncle Sugar is doing much of the gouging. Check your records on the great banana dispute of the '90s: The Clinton admin imposed a punative 100% tariff on most euro products. As far as I can tell, it's still in place. Ask anyone outside the US about our trade barriers. You'll get an earful. Or just watch Blair trying to sell the Iraq war support in front of Parlement on BBC/America on DTV: Somebody always brings up the trade issue. I was hoping that Junior would do something about it, but the only trade issue I've heard was when Jr supported barriers against import steel. Steel? Import steel? If our own steel industry needs protection against the kinds of instant-rust (just add water) put into the average Fiat, then we're in big, big trouble.
I'll gladly condemn Ferrari dealers (and FNA) for price gouging. Go down to your nearest stealership and ask for any bearing, cam drive is a good example. Now go to any industrial supply house the deals with pneumatics, bring said bearing and part match it. Off the top of my head, the stealership will want around $60, the parts house will sell you around 10 of them for that price. They're both SKF, carry the same p/n and probably came from the same batch even. They both got taxed equally (and heavily in the case of bearings). I think half of their screwing us is to try and "encourage" us to move up. ie, if lowly 308s are so convenient/enjoyable to own, what's to drive us to get a 355 or a 360, and keep the used markets supported for their overproduction of new models.
I'd think LONG and hARD about trading "up" from the 308 to the later V8s..... You are going the wrong direction there, if cost of maintenance is any concern. Bandit hit on the head, go take a loooong drive with the little lady, to a scenic overlook somewhere, and act like High School kids!!!!!!! The cop'll be amazed it's YOUR car and YOUR wife........nothing illegal there! LOL!
Rival, you come on down to New Orleans in November, we'll pass a good time! We always visit my favorite Uncle, in Madison, MS afterwards, so we can convoy home.................. Do it, man....no kidding! You'll be in the back row, with me and Dave328, and Lady Valeria!
Ok, after reading this, I'm not so sure I can afford to have a Ferrari... maybe to buy one, but then the maintenance would kill me... Can someone PM me on true costs of ownership, or post up links? Particularly for either a 308 or 328....
Birdman and others have it right; there are other sources for parts and rebuilds of items like compressors and alternators, and the labor is something better done by yourself! Cross-referencing items like SKF bearings is essential, as are many other "moving" parts on these cars. If you don't know how, learn. It isn't that hard to do, and the satisfaction of knowing the job was done right the first time is well worth it...
This will give you an example as I'm putting together the list for the major service with water pump rebuild on the 308 right now. Plan on spending this every 5 years or so. These are parts only, no labor. And these are not "dealer prices". Timing belt set with bearings and gaskets: $1100 Water pump rebuild kit: $185 Rear brake pads: $68 Plug wires: $550 Repro distributor cap: $350 each x 2 = $700 Distributor rotor: $35 each x 2 = $70 $2670 in parts, no labor, and we've not even included any other "while you're in there" or "oh ****, guess what we found" items. The purchase price is just the down payment of Ferrari ownership. This isn't for everyone.
And yet, when you average that out over the five year major service interval you get less than $600 per year. The value of the car isn't going down any. Total cost of ownership over a five-year period of a Honda Civic would be higher when you figure in the depreciation hit. Of course, there is a risk of very expensive surprises if something in the engine or gearbox should break.
Plus labor. Plus interim service. Tires, brakes, misc... I wouldn't recommend a Ferrari, any Ferrari, to someone that could not put $2k in maintenance items per year in it. It might not always happen, but you need to go into these cars wide eyed. Remember, the first 308's are 30 years old this year! They're getting to be rolling restorations now, not just "hobby" cars...
i'm a bit of a new f-car owner and enjoy this site..i thought i'd add a bit of "news from the front" at the higher end of car ownership.as a "hobby"quite a few years ago i got into grand prix bugattis...the parts issue is rather simple..as there are few remaining original bits that can be installed on a car that's driven , the alternatives are to have the part made locally or find a specialty supplier that has already gone thru the hoops of getting drawings ,having patterns,castings [or forgings]made and machined...just add a couple zeros to ferrari prices and add 6 to 18 months of waiting....one of my favorite stories was when i needed a water pump about a month before monterey and finally found a fellow in england that agreed to take a new repro one off his unfinished engine. about the same time i was approached by a local guy to buy my lotus europa..i told him i needed $3500 for a water pump and that was the price of the car....he bought it but seemed baffeled by my pricing rational ...that year at the races he came up to me with great anticipation..i was afraid the lotus had crapped out , so i asked him if everything was ok.."sure" he said"the lotus is fine and parked at the corral ....i just HAD to come over and see what a thirty five hundred dollar water pump looks like!"....
Mmmm, Bugattis... I'm a generation behind, they're going to be out of my price range (read: what my wife allows me to spend on cars) for a long time.
Whats it cost? I'm rebuilding a 77 308 GTB I bought a year ago. Engine out, gearbox and all is apart. I have brand new Wiseco pistons, with higher compression than stock, crankshaft checked and polished, all new gaskets, bearings and belts, liners bored, etc... So far I have spent less that $2500 on parts and machine work plus odd bits for the car. I still need to rebuild the heads and find some gearbox parts, I hope to get the gearbox back together for under $1K, and hopefully less for the heads. I know a guy who does a lot of old euro engine work, he figures a 308 head is basically an Alfa head so he'll price the basic job from that figure, but I want new valves and springs so I'm not sure where those will come out price wise. But I doubt ill have $5k into the whole shabang when the dust settles. Timing belt set with bearings and gaskets: $1100??? I did a service on my car before I ran it, and I got the belts and gaskets for about $300 Plug wires: $550??? I don't know where the wire is made, but I wont ever pay $550 for 8 plug wires. Repro distributor cap: $350 each x 2 = $700?? My car is 30 years old and probably has the original caps. They don't need to be replaced as long as they work and look okay, and neither does the rotor. And I thought TRutlands was selling repro caps for like $125?? Headlight switch. Well, I needed one for my car, and was very lucky to find a used one reasonably priced. But thats a part thats only made for a Ferrari, and is so limited in production, I knew it would be expensive. But the labor to R&R it would be equally expensive. I put a switch in a 83 Mercedes, and while the switch was less expensive, the work involved makes me cringe to use my turn signal. I will use the Ferrari one very conservatively. Yes, parts are expensive. But if you shop around and buy your own parts, and do your own work, its not rediculously expensive. And from what I have read about Mr. Ferrari, he would want you to work on his cars yourself and know how it works, no matter how wealthy you are. Go get some dirt under your fingernails. That sound alone is worth the price, man. I waited all my life to hear a carbed Ferrari close up and personal, and when it runs the next time it will be awesome with its compression, P6 cams, and gutted aircleaner with Ansa exhaust. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Paul: I was just throwing out some numbers. I've actually got all of the parts listed in a spreadsheet that I've sent out for bids. Looks like all of the bidders are going to get some business. The 308 was an unknown when I bought it, it had no records. We're going through it completely so that everything is a known, and not an unknown. So yes, I'm replacing some stuff where whats on the car could last for a bit longer. More of a mechanical overhaul and not just a service. As for Rutlands, they want $225 each for the reproduction distributor caps. Double that and you can get the originals from Ferrari UK. Point is, these are not cheap cars. Can you do the work yourself and save some money? Yes. Can you shop around and find cheaper parts? Yes. But, if some people keep saying that these are cheap cars that you don't have to spend money on, there will be more problem cars out there that didn't get the proper feed and watering that they needed. And yes, I like spending some time with the car tinkering, but I'd rather spend more of my free time with my wife than scraping my knuckles on stuck caliper. Go for it if you can do it for less, just be prepared for the times that you can't. Cheers, Erik
I was going to say the same thing. The initial quote on a replacement alternator for the wife's Benz was $650 (included some attached computer sensor junk). Comparatively, $800 for a 348 alternator doesn't sound unbelievable.
$800 for a benz I can see. $800 for a 348 I think is a ripoff. The 348 alternators are from japan and are very easy to rebuild for under $200. Unless it is really bad, Just get them rebuilt and upgrade the AMPage at the sametime.
Aparently it's not quite that simple when you need to replace the voltage regulator. Nippondenso won't share the correct voltage regulator, I even called their remanufacturing plant in TN. I did find a cross reference on though, I'm going to reinstall it tomorrow and see how it works now. Why would the Benz be worth more, it's just a Bosch alt. anyway ???
You guys are scaring me away from getting a F-car. I'm just about ready to buy a 308-328 and have about $1000 per year for the maintenance. Do you all think $1000/yr. is enough?
