328 Rubber Fuel Hose Replacement- My DIY | FerrariChat
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328 Rubber Fuel Hose Replacement- My DIY

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by gatsby, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. gatsby

    gatsby Karting

    Apr 26, 2005
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    half moon bay, CA
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    jim
    #1 gatsby, Aug 14, 2005
    -Thought I would share my experience in replacing all the Rubber Fuel Hoses in my 86 328 in case others might be thinking about replacing their hoses.

    Here's what I did:

    1) Jack up rear end of car and placed on stands.
    2) Disconnected battery
    3) I replaced that fuel pump and accumulator so I got that out of the way after I drained all the fuel from the tanks.
    4) I had bought some of the replacement fuel hoses based on size info from other guys who have done it here and other forums.
    5) Took out the old hoses and tried to match them with the replacements that I bought. This did not work out so well as most of the hoses were completely deformed and brittle. Many had to be cut in place to be removed. The smaller vent hoses were so dry and brittle they basically snapped when I bent them around 90-degrees. The larger hoses (filler neck and the 2 hoses connecting the fuel tanks) were in relatively good shape because I think they were always exposed to fuel or vapor, keeping them from drying.
    6) I decided to measure each metal pipe with calipers to get the exact sizes then purchase hoses that were exact fit.
    7) After I found all the hoses, I started all the installation. By my count, I replaced exactly 17 rubber hoses of 5 sizes.

    WHAT I FOUND:
    I used the following...
    1) 145" of 5/16" fuel injection grade hose (very easy to find at european parts store and not expensive) I used Gates fuel injection rated. This hose is mainly for the vent/vapor connections and the charcoal canister area.
    2) 37" of 5/8" fuel injection grade hose (also easy to find) I used Weatherthread and Goodyear. Weatherthread is very tough material and I used it to connect the portside fuel tank to the fuel pump. Really good stuff. The Goodyear is also strong but more flexible, so I used this for the various vent nipples above the fuel tanks. Additonally there are 2 locations you will need 5/8" on the portside vent nipples and 1 location on the starboard tank.
    3) 29" of 1/4" fuel injection grade hose (this is also easy to find and cheap) I used Gates fuel injection grade. I used this on the drain pipe next to the filler opening where you put gas in. It is basically for overflow fuel or water drain from rain or washing.
    4) 8" (2 @ 4") of 1-3/8" fuel grade rubber hose for the connection line between the two fuel tanks. This was a little bit of a challenge as not many places offer 1-3/8" size. I found a really strong fuel hose (250psi) rated from a hydraulic/fuel transfer hose supplier. This stuff was orange in color and had double braided interior and the wall thickness was almost three times the size of the original. I was able to put these in but decided to remove them later because they just seemed too stiff. I opted to go with Bellowsflex 1-3/8" hose, Coast Guard & SAE rated for fuel and exhaust, with metal wire imbedded for grounding and strength. This was very strong hose and was a perfect fit. I got them from McMaster Carr for around $7 per foot.
    5) 4" of 2-1/4" NAPA 1055 (around $15 a foot from NAPA). This was for the fuel filler neck, and this was the most challenging search for me. The fuel filler neck is actually 2-1/8" in size and there are no places that I found that make a 2-1/8" for fuel. I tried squeezing in a 2" fuel hose- this was impossible. I also bought the same hose type as #4 above- McMaster Carr makes it also in 2-1/8" size fuel/exhause marine rated, but this one is a very stiff hose and I found it impossible to put into place, although the fit seems to be perfect. The large flare on the pipes kept me from sliding the hose in despite a lot of lubrication. I opted to go with the NAPA 1055. This was an easy slide into the pipe, is a little loose as it is 1/8" too large, but with wide, SS hose clamps, it seals perfectly. I'm pretty confident that the 1055 will have no problems for this car.

    USEFUL NOTES FOR ME:

    a) Drain all fuel and loosen both fuel tanks to access all the small vapor hoses on the top of the fuel tanks. There are 5 nipples on the starboard tank and 3 nipples on the port.
    b) Use new and good quality SS clamps, not one of those open slotted ones. I used solid SS clamps from Germany and they clamp evenly and tight without stripping.
    c) Use long handed hose pliers. This will save your knuckles and your fittings.
    d) Have a really sharp cutting tool with extra blades.
    e) Lubricate hoses and pipe ends to ease hoses into place
    f) Good Lights!
    g) Lots of long extensions and swivels.
    h) Large tie wraps to secure the long 5/16" hose that spans across the car (vent/vapor)
    i) Take photos of each area before dismantling - you can easily be confused. I used a digital camera as well as the parts drawing.
    j) As i said above, the smaller hoses were more brittle and dry than the larger ones, but then again, mine were definitely from 1985 production original.
    k) I replaced all the rubber hoses for the main fuel routes as well as all the vapor/canister recovery (in left wheel well area- this is really easy).
    l) I may have overdone putting really strong FI hoses even for the vapor/vent lines, but..what the hey.
    m) To appease my paranoia, I actually cut pieces of the rubber hoses and placed them in a fuel jar to conduct my own real-time study. I will check the condition of the rubber hoses every month to see how they actually hold up.

    The pics below show the cracks visible on the old filler hose, the old hoses I took out, and some of the new hoses I replaced. Difficulty is 6 out of 10- mainly because of access. A really strong, 4-jointed, non-slipping, long arm would really help.

    Hope this helps some of you guys out there. Cheers.
     
  2. gatsby

    gatsby Karting

    Apr 26, 2005
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    jim
    #2 gatsby, Aug 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

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    #3 matteo, Aug 14, 2005
    I need to change the x-flow hoses and this is a HUGE help.

    Thanks for posting this
     
  4. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    #4 greg328, Aug 14, 2005
    I'd ****LOVE**** to have a similar list/post for my 1977 308 GTB carburetor car. I REALLY need to change my fuel hose also, but I keep putting it off because I can't be sure of all the different sizes and lengths I'll need...

    The above list mentioned standard sizes, but aren't our hoses really metric?

    What about going with steel braided aircraft hose? More expensive, but worth it?

    Can anybody provide the definitive fuel hose list for a carb 308? I'll be your best friend.....!

    Greg
     
  5. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

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    #5 matteo, Aug 14, 2005
    Greg,

    the 328 and 308 are the same car for the most part. The sizes are the same for the fuel lines. You will have a difference coming from the tank to the pump to the filter but the filler and x-pipes are the same.

    The ones from the tank to the filter and pump are all the same smaller 14mm(outside)7mm(inside) IIRC

    Matt
     
  6. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    #6 greg328, Aug 14, 2005
    What about the lines going to/between the carbs? That's a completely different set-up than the FI cars, isn't it?

    Greg
     
  7. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

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    #7 matteo, Aug 14, 2005
    My bad.

    Forgot those.

    I don;t know the spec size from when I had a carb 308 but I changed them out with SS braided.

    The shop did it so I don't know final cost or sizes or suppliers.
     
  8. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #8 greg328, Aug 14, 2005
    That's cool.

    Does anybody know a good source (economical) for SS braided line?
    Must present a challenge to install, because it's harder to cut, right?
    I'll probably go with rubber FI hose, unless somebody can talk me into SS braided....

    Still hoping somebody, someday will post CARBURETOR 308 fuel line particulars, i.e. lengths and ID/OD specs........

    Greg
     
  9. gatsby

    gatsby Karting

    Apr 26, 2005
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    jim
    #9 gatsby, Aug 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The hoses I got were basically an exact fit, although they were sold in Standard sizes with metric equivalent on the side, as shown on the pic below for the portside fuel-to-fuel pump connection (5/8" or 15.9mm). This particular hose is actually a "snugger" fit than the standard 16mm ID metric hose. I think it is definitely good enough.

    Aeroquip is supposed to be a good source for SS braided hose. The ones on mine were absolutely perfect despite of the age and I did not replace them. I did clean them nicely before I reinstalled them. I don't thing they will ever need replacing.

    BTW, after installation of all hoses, I leak tested them by putting in fuel and checking every hose several times over the next 24 hours. Then I started the engine and let it run for several minutes, of several iterations. I checked from underneath the fuel pump hoses and all other hoses that carry fuel and not a drop nor a scent of fuel anywhere. When I was convinced that everything was tight, I buttoned 'er back up. I sleep a lot better now knowing that my wife can drive this and have no flames coming out of the engine compartment. Hopefully the fire extinguisher will remain unused.
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  10. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    #10 Martin308GTB, Aug 16, 2005
    but be aware, that the hoses are made from two different types of rubber. The outside CR rubber isn't designed mainly for fuel resistance, but for resistance against abrasion and similar mechanical attacks or heat. The inner layer NBR is designed more for resistance against fuel and it's additives.
    So don't be concerned, if the outer layer is getting brittle during this test.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  11. shenbec

    shenbec Rookie

    Nov 21, 2003
    14
    #11 shenbec, Aug 17, 2005
    These hose sizes and lengths are from a 1980 Euro GTB, so your mileage may very. I did the whole changing of hoses thing a few years ago. It wasn't too bad. The larger fuels lines were not fun as well as the long coolant lines to the front of the car.

    Coolant drivers side heat exchanger inside to T 1/2" 16"
    Coolant heat control valve ti T 5/8" 6.5"
    Coolant pass side heat exhanger inside to T 1/2" 36"
    Coolant engine to heater switch 5/8" 131"
    Coolant pass side heat exchanger outside to return T 1/2" 29"
    Coolant driver side outside heat exchanger to return T 1/2" 27"
    Coolant return T to large line to radiator 5/8" 72"
    Coolant exspanion tank to water pump 3/4" 20"
    Coolant exspanion tank to water pump 3/8" 20"
    Coolant 1.5 couplers on hard lines/water pump/ etc. 1 1/2" 3-5"x 9 pieces
    Coolant 1.5 90 degree bend on radator drivers side top 1 1/2" NA
    Vacuume engine to one way valve 1/2" 9"
    Vacuume one way valve to brake booster 1/2" 132"
    AC dryer to exspansion valve 5/16" 8"
    AC condencer to dryer 5/16" 21"
    AC compressor to exspansion valve 1/2" 112"
    AC compressor to condenser 13/32" 134"
    Fuel pass side carbs front to back 5/16" 6"
    Fuel drivers side carbs front to back 5/16" 3"
    Fuel drivers side back carb to pass side back carb 5/16" 13"
    Fuel fuel pump to drivers side front carb 5/16" 58"
    Fuel return line from pass side front carb to pass tank 1/4" 21"
    Fuel fuel pump to filter 5/16" 12"
    Fuel fuel tank to pump 5/16" 8"
    Fuel fuel filler to tank crossover hard line 5/8" 10"
    Fuel drivers side tank to crossover hard line 5/8" 5"
    Fuel pass side tank to crossover hard line 5/8" 5"
    Washer from windshield washer tank to splitter 3/32"? 64"
    Washer from splitter to drivers side nozzel 7/64"? 11"
    Washer from splitter to pass side nozzel 7/64"? 14"
    Emisions coupler on valve cover breathers 3/4" 2"x 2 pieces
    Emisions dry sump tank to valve breathers 3/4" ?
    Emisions dry sump tank to air box 3/4" ?
    Emisions transmition vent line 15/32" 45

    Chris
    80 308 gtb Euro
     
  12. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
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    May 1, 2005
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    #12 PT 328, Dec 17, 2007
    I am about to embark on fuel line and vapor hose replacement on my 328. I am having difficulty navigating the new Ferrari owners website to find the diagrams of the 328 fuel system. Can someone please post the diagrams and in addition supply the corresponding numbers for the vapor lines. In return I plan on extensively documenting this procedure with pictures and hand written notes. Thanks in advance.

    Dan
     
  13. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
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    #13 phrogs, Feb 4, 2008
    Great thread!
     
  14. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #14 fastradio, Feb 4, 2008
    If anyone needs lenghts of this hose, I've still got enough left to do 1-2 Ferrari's. I only use and stock the Gates Green Stripe products, the best of the best, as this is one project I wouldn't want to do twice. Just PM me if you're interested.

    Thanks,
    David
     
  15. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    #15 Martin308GTB, Feb 4, 2008
    since some people are concerned about ethanol blended fuels; this might also fit this thread:
    The most modern fuel line stuff called FPM/ECO is guaranteed flexible fuels resistant. Say, with fuels up to E85. What's so far not sure with the common NBR/CR fuel lines.
    Though this wasn't my concern I used the FPM/ECO stuff when I did my fuel lines on my 308 GTB two years ago.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  16. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    #16 Steve King, Feb 4, 2008
    Jim a question here. When I recently did my filler neck hose there was a another drain hole /nipple located in the fuel fill area. It was there in case you spilled gas or overflowed the filler neck. The nipple was blocked so I opened it. I had to put another piece of hose along the tank (tie wrapped it to your black hose) and cut it off near the body panel. Did you have this nipple? Just wondering. Nice job
     
  17. Milkshaker0007

    Milkshaker0007 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2012
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    #17 Milkshaker0007, Mar 31, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys need a little help

    So two or 3years back I changed my fuel pipes (all of them) problem is one of them burst!! open last night in the garage over half a tank of fuel everywhere.

    Now the pipes I'm after I can't locate at the moment and am not going to buy them super performance as that's where I got them from and are of dubious quality.

    They are the very short pipes that connect the left and right fuel tanks together via the length of metal pipe (see photo- copied off FC)

    Ideally the previous set were "gates" when I had the car from previous owner.

    I have been on ebay and the net trying to locate some but due to them being a large diameter I'm not having much luck.

    Ideally in the UK, can someone point me to a seller
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  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #18 Rifledriver, Mar 31, 2017

    Your experience mirrors mine from several years ago except yours lasted longer.

    Not sure what is going on with the gas in the UK but I'll assume it is similar to here. Many of the hoses being sold, often from big names like Gates do not stand up to being full of our modern adulterated fuel 100% of the time like the connector hoses or the pump supply hose. For the pump supply hose I only use SRI hose or Aeroquip. Aeroquip makes a variety of hose suitable for all manner of fuel and is available in cloth braid or rubber covering. For the cross over hoses I only use OE Ferrari hose or SRI hose. I have seen too many near catastrophes from other so called fuel hose in that application.
     
  19. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    #19 Martin308GTB, Mar 31, 2017
    I'm in Europe too and did bite the bullet, ordering the SRI-ones since I couldn't locate any trustworthy alternative anywhere else.
    I'm curious how your hoses look like after just 3 years. Could you post more pictures where one can see more details of the damage?


    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  20. Milkshaker0007

    Milkshaker0007 Formula Junior

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    #20 Milkshaker0007, Mar 31, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had to slice it off with a knife as just wouldn't pull off, but if I bend the hose in several places you can clearly see SEVERAL tiny tears
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  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #21 Rifledriver, Mar 31, 2017
    I have pictures of hose just disintegrating, huge cracks and fuel dripping off with 1 or 2 year old hose clearly marked in the photo as being fuel hose from a major company with the correct SAE specification.
     

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