Ferrari 328/348 vs. Lotus Elise

The values of the Elise's have leveled off as people have posted...It is no longer a 5-10K over sticker car anymore. Any new car is going to depreciate dramatically. Look at some of the cars the sold for over sticker when released... 06 Vette, H2 Hummer, Z3 BMW, Mazda Miata, Mini Cooper....all leveled off and then started their rapid declines...My buddy got lucky and bought a H2 Hummer '04 at sticker for 53K....he sold it a little under 2 years later for 39K...$14K in depreciation...a comparable priced Ferrari (lets say the 348) would have to be a DOG to put $14k in it in 2 years.

I agree with you that you are getting a higher performing car, but you are paying more for it too.

 

*golf clap for patpong!!!!!!*

....and Ken has some valid points as well.

I was glad they settled on the Toyota engins, also. I have one in a lil' truck and you just cannot kill it, over 200,000 miles and I rev that baby WAY up there keeping up with I45 traffic!!!!!

Hard to say.....but obviously the opposing depreciation curves favor the 308!!!!

Maybe I'll get a couple of the Elise's for the kids, although I think I've convinced them to go with The Meyers Manxster!

 

At the price point if the Lotus I want people to at least know what it is. A Vette or a used Ferrari, people know what it is immediately. If someone has to ask is that the new Celica? You over paid IMO and this is exactly why I did not look at 911s this time around. I've had the newer ones pull up behind me and I think to myself "who the hell does this guy in that Mazada think he is?" If it can be mistaken for a rice burner it is not EXOTIC, it over priced IMO. Lambo is doing a similar thing as well, the gullwings are only obvious for the 30 seconds a day they are up, in traffic who could tell?

 

Maybe you should get some glasses if you think a 911 looks like a Mazda. The Lotus is an awesome car. Who cares if nobody knows what it is - if they don't that makes it even more exotic IMO. If you the love the 348 - get it. If you want it because it's a Ferrari and people know what it is...get the Lotus.

 

Spoken like a happily married man, don't worry, you'll get over it.

 

What? If you think your car is going to chicks...you will be disappointed. Should of saved your $$$

 

993 - last air-cooled 911 - is the best deal in sportscars at $40K. Maybe the most distinctive sports car ever made. Sounds GREAT. Done depreciating. Reliable as hell. Fast and somewhat comfortable. Solid, German build quality back when 'German' meant 'solid'.

996 - I think you're right.

 

Why do people always want to compare BRAND NEW cars with 15-25 year old Ferrari's and TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH BETTER THEY ARE.

OF COURSE THE PERFORMANCE IS BETTER, THEY'RE 20 YEARS NEWER!

Next, lets start comparing THE PERFORMANCE of my old 1984 Black & White Sony TV with a BRAND NEW NIKOHOMISHIKI OFF BRAND PLASMA.

 

We compare these cars because the general price is the same, they're both exotic sports cars, and the people who buy them do so for a variety of reasons. Some want the best performance, some want the 'better' looks, some want the mystique of a particular brand. They are all fair comparisons.

Your TV example is not a fair comparison because they are so different in price and performance. There is no basis for comparison whatsoever.

Ken

 

But the prices AREN'T the same...The price structures are different for a BRAND NEW car to one that is 20 years old.

 

I was an early 'waitlist' guy for an Elise (emphasis on WAIT)

It's a really neat toy -- a go cart, literally -- but what it has in performance fails to be matched in fit/finish, quality. If it's raw speed you want, get a bike.

Once I drove the Elise, the bloom was off the rose. O.K., it's quick and ultra-responsive, but lacked that visceral feeling IMO. No soul. The death knell was seeing one parked outside the AutoGallery. Next to a bunch of F-cars, the Elise looked like a pre-teen had penned it. Dropped off the list right after that.

Would consider one as a track toy, but not as a street (or even street/track) car

 

True, but the thread keeps coming back to performance, in which case the 360 and F430 are the contemporaries of the Elise. There are way too many threads on f-chat about how 2005 Elises/Evo's/Mustang Cobras/ad nauseum can kill a 308 on the track. In a $/performance comparison, Ferrari loses, 8 cylinders, 12 cylinders, whatever.

Anyone who buys a classic (pre-348 for the sake of argument) Ferrari, Porsche 356 (my other fling), Lotus Elan, etc., is buying on some basis other than performance, warranty or perceived genital size. Roester made the right choice for himself, and the Elise is certainly a great car. It's just a little odd for us 246/308/328 fans to see those cars lose out because they don't have the warranty coverage and 0-60 performance of a 2005 sports car.

NNO's post about the smell of oil and such really sums it up for me. My MGB had those sounds and smells - yeah, with laughable performance - and to me that's what it's all about. Every car made today is better, but no one makes a car the does all that.

Mystique isn't for sale in a showroom anymore.

And let's leave out the penis size issue. Any middle-aged guy in a flashy sports car (Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari and especially Vipers) is going to have to deal with the jokes. Drive what you want and get an implant.

 

Almost everyone on the planet knows what a Ferrari is, it like driving Michael Jordan. In 50 years a used Ferrari is STILL a Ferrari and Lotus is what? Do used Lotus sell for $2,000,000? Not that I am aware of, there are used Ferraris in the price range however, and not just a single model, but you have several options at $2,000,000+. As far as I am aware, Ferrari is the only automotive brand that has such a fantastic resale value 30 years after production. Old Porsches, Lambos, Lotus all seem to sell for less than their new prices, a Ferrari is like a lottery ticket, the right one could be a big winner.

Does that DeLoren have a full tank of gas? Ok, I'll give you $50.00 for it then.

 

Here in the UK, you buy an Elise before a Ferrari - why, cause their cheap and common. quite frankly, you can buy them as company cars! They're excellent cars, and they are what Colin Chapman would have wanted - superb performance, fantastic road holding at an affordable price etc etc. But Colin Chapman wanted a high performance car for little money - and lets make no mistake - thats what they are.

A Ferrari however is a completely different car. I would leave the argument there. My final point is this: The designer of the Lotus Elise based his lines on the Dino 246GT - just check the rear and sides....

 

Try buying a Speedster for $5000. Or a 356 Convertible D. Or a 73 911 RS. Or a Lambo Miura S. Or...

 

I was on the waiting list for an Elise for almost 2 years.
Originally I though about the Elise as an exotic without all the reliability problem. But as time went by and they started delivering the first cars, a bunch of problems started coming up. Some may say "it is a first production year thing" but they have been out for almost 10 years. They may have a new engine but just reading elisetalk, I come to find out that the engine may be the only reliable piece on the car.
Another problem is their shady distributor network. My dealer is still trying to create a shortage of supply and trying to sell the car with a $3000.00 mark up when in fact you can get then with a discount from other dealers. So if this dealer is going to be the only one approved to work on my car, then I am in trouble. Still after 2 years I didn’t have a car and the delivery date kept on moving.
Then I went to a British car show. And comparing the Elise with old Bentleys and Aston Martins, the Elise does not have the mystique these old cars have. Sure it can out perform them, but it will not be a classic in 30 years.
Needless to say I dropped out of the list. I may get one in a couple of years for 1/2 of their MRSP.

 

IMHO You are missing the mark (and the marque) if you consider a Lotus as either a social statement or an investment. These are light cars for thrilling driving on curving roads. Used in this way, there is simply nothing like them. They are not for drag racing or straight high-speed stretches.

Similarly, given that they are intentionally as lightweight as possible without using superexpensive materials, they are not unreasonably fragile. No, they are not meant to be crashed into things. They are not good for you to be in if some other jerk crashes into you. (One such in a Chevy smashed into my Elan +2S in 1970 and broke both my ankles.)

Enjoy Loti for what they are, and Ferraris for what they are. Do that and you'll have a great time with either/both.

 

Comparing a new Elise to a 25 year old Ferrari is comparing apples and oranges! Gee wiz, the new car’s faster?
Run a new Elise up against a new 2006 Z06 Vette, and I expect all you’ll be seeing are taillights.
True the Z06 cost 50% more than the Elise, but this is no more unfair than comparing it to an 80’s something 328!
Apples and oranges. Two different cars, two different era’s.
Don’t take me wrong, I think the Elise is a very cool looking car! In fact I was first ‘shocked’ by one while shopping for an overpriced garage queen Boxer. I say ‘shocked’, because I was! Didn’t know what it was, but I was sure it must be Expensive, and I was surprised when the sales guy said it was a Lotus, and under 50K! I quipped to the guy that for that price I could almost put it on my credit card, and might well had done it if he’d had one available. But then again, a few more glances at the overpriced queen slowed me down as well.
In the end, it just depends on what you want out of each of these cars.
I never did drive an Elise, but to me it looks like it’s just begging you to drive it hard and fast! Run it up onto the cams at 6 to 8 grand and bang through the gears and flip it around some corners.
But Ferrari’s say the same thing, just in a different voice.
I found my Boxer a couple months later, and I don’t doubt that in a sprint that I’d be looking at Elise taillights too. Damn Elise would probably do two or three circles around me before I even got my ill-tempered carbed car started!
But it doesn’t make any difference.
I bought my car for what it is, for the heritage it represents, gassy oily smell, funny old skinny tires and all! And it doesn’t sound half bad running through the gears either!
So to each his own. I’m happy with my 12 cylinders, and I imagine Elise guys are happy with their 4.
So don’t compare your new car to these old ones, and I won’t compare your Elise to my Ferrari.
Just drive them for what they are, and enjoy the experience!
But that’s not saying in a couple years I won’t put a nice used one on my credit card!

 

Very well said...

 

I have to disagree sorry. Julian Thomson who is Thai-British native, also original designer of the Elise didnot based his lines on the Dino. nonono. Lotus never have to do anything like that. He based his designed on the original Elan and all other Lotus classic. The basic shape from the Original Elan, Front lights and turn signal from the Europa, the rear is from one of the Lotus LeMans classic.... Lotus has always originated many ideas for the auto industry...

The basic idea of the Elise is a fun Motorcycle car for 2 people. The reasons for plastic and aluminum interior is that the car should be able to be driven in the rain that same way a motorcycle can. The water just drain out and you can drive the car on. I love the idea of the Elise. Lightweight,... so light that the engine, displacement of the engine, hp not a major factor for its performance. Any engine at all will do the job. Ferrari has incressed its engine capacity everytime they want to gain more power for the next model, IMO that a real ancient idea of increasing the performance... After the F430 will probably be the F450 and F480, the car get heavier everytime new models come out... That's why I stay with classic Ferrari's.

 

I read an article with him saying (stood in front of his Dino) that he took styling cues from his Ferrari. You've only got to look at the shape of the car to see the similarities. Take a look at the Kamm tail on the rear, the round lights, the curves of the wings, its bloody obvious! Good car though.