Any medical-field related owners out here?

Agreed. I Was an orthopaedic surgical rep for years. Delt with Neuros, orthopods and intervential radiologists daily. Still have many that are very good friends. The hours are un-Godly and the rewards have to be more than monetary or you'll burn out fast.

For half the pay and a third of the hours do surgical sales. A very good rep can make half of what an orthopod makes and when you factor taxes, insurance, and hours worked probably makes more per hour.

 

What this thread points out is that as a doc you CAN make lots of money, statistically - this isn't the norm. Median salaries are as posted, per hour income is almost always less than 100$/hour.

Most radiologists make somewhere in the 200-300,000. Some of my friends make 3x that...get while the getting is good.

If you must go into medicine, radiology and derm are where to go. Honestly, and I mean no disrespect to any docs on this board, but I NEVER understood why radiologists and dermatologists are paid as well as they are...

Surgeons, I can see: Hours are horrible, stand all day, high risk.

Cards, sure: Lousy call, high risk.

Radiology/derm: In by 9 am, off at 11am...perhaps pull a late day until 3pm. Hardly on call. TRY to get an xray read after 5 pm or on a weekends. It would be easier to make Kerry a Republican.

Most xrays are read in real time by another doc anyway (IM/FP/ER), and acted on long before the radiologist wakes up. Most readings are done after the fact, and pt care has already been initiated. 300$ to read an xray, which can be done in 2.5 seconds excluding the formality of dictating (add 6 more seconds ).

Again, mean no disrespect, and am frankly quite jealous...

 

SHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Busted!!!!!! Yeah we pay someone to read our on call stuff after 9pm, beats getting called all night long. Yes we also remotely view images at home.....

But then again, not everyone was at the top of their class..........what was that line in CaddyShack......yeah the world also needs surgeons too.......

 

Frank...I am quite jealous . Openly admit that. The silly thing is that I was at the top of my class, was accepted at Harvard for a residency but declined (father was dying of colon cancer).

Chose to accept an anesthesia position at University of Chicago...but changed my mind, figured it would be boring... (What is it that they say about one little decision affecting the rest of your life?)

Figured IM was an easy way out, 3 years, and I am done...

BIG MISTAKE. So, I am a ditch digger by choice, not by destiny....

Realistically though, a lot of folks CHOSE not to go into radiology/derm/etc. Most of us figured it would be boring as hell. Also, in residency, we were told radiologists make "a little more" than IM/Surg/etc. If I knew then, that it was in the neighborhood of 3-5x more, then I would be looking at a flickering screen in the hospital basement right now. No one was kind enough to point that difference out. Statistically speaking though, most radiologists don't make 3-5x more, but some do...(Seems like everyone I know, sigh)...

 

There is another issue that has not been dealt with: when a physician buys a Ferrari, what is he trying to say? It seems that the car does not fit the position, at least here in Canada where obvious demonstrations of wealth are looked down upon. I am a physician and if another physician told me he has a Ferrari(or even worse a Lambo) I would see him as more of a "poser" more than anything else. On the other hand, if it were an Aston Martin or even a Maserati, my reaction would be completely different. He is not making as obvious a statement with the other 2 badges. I would look at him as someone who is a connoisseur of fine automobiles and is not out for the "bling" effect. By the same token, Porsche/MB/BMW just don't cut it and they would just be following rather than leading. I have no doubt that the F430 is one of the finest automobiles on the planet, but I'd rather be seen as a distinguished gentleman in an Aston or Maser rather than a playboy in a Ferrari. I know I will get flamed by the Fcar owners but there is a definite element of truth to what I have written. The only exception would be a vintage Ferrari from the 1960's and no later.

 

Astons and Maseratis are not sports cars... Ferraris and Lambos are. I can certainly see the stereotype.. then again my perception of a Aston or Maserati owner is a late 40's-50's conservative rich guy who drinks fine wine and eats Grey Poupon.... LOL !... nothing against Astons. I had a chance to drive my friend's Vanquish for a day and it was a great car but not for me.

 

By the time one can afford a ferrari you will probably be at least in your 40's, unless you are a drug dealer or a pimp. Hence the problem of image, how does a 40-50 year old look in an F430? To paraphrase Enzo himself "i make a young man's car that only old men can afford"

Astons and Maserati's are sport GT cars, livable and with enough power and panache to be interesting.

 

If by "Ferrari" you mean "new Ferrari," maybe.

 

I would have to say you have security issues then..

its a car... if someone is going to buy a car simply as a status symbol they you would see it in other areas..

I mean what happens when he buys his wife new boobs??

-a

 

Does this mean you think everyone that is under 40 who drives a FCAR had to be a drug dealer ? or pimp ?

Kinda funny, considering the business I am in, but I made my money in Software development and smart business.

to be honest, a 60 yo man would look kickin in a F430!! I know of one in our town that is 50+ that drives around in a TR and a F40LM and nobody can say a damn thing!

but.. its all good..

-a

 

Frank,
I Love those cars. The AM is my dream machine. Just curious, do your patients know your collection? If so, how do they act and how do you deal with it?

Do you guys think that the high-end money that afford such a lovely collection as Frank and Karen's, ect. will exist? Or you do think the top doctors will be more rarer (and still be able to demand the high salaries), and more doctors will slip to the medium-to-lower end? Anyone know how much an Oral/Maxillofacial Surgeon might pull down?

Also, do you fear for the medical society in whole, and the future of the country's health care system? Will we have the quality and technological progress that has made our system one of best in the world?

 

As a neurologist I can say that medicine is the sort of career where you do not make Gates kind of money, but a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle is certainly achevable for all MDs. My field is neurology. Some neurologists make $120k, some over $500k per year. It depends on the locale, in general, the more remote the better the pay, as there is less HMO penetration. The more tricks you have learned in your subspecialization, the more you make. Strictly seeing patients is getting less financially rewarding as reimbursments keep going down, and neurology consults tend to be time consuming.

In academia the salaries are in the low to mid 100ks. Go in academia for research and teaching. The money is in private practice, and then in a situation where the practice has assets, i.e. an MRI scanner, a building where others rent space, a lab on site, a sleep lab, etc. Practices like that typically have a partnership track. The more desirable and the more the partners make the longer the wait and the higher the buy in. The average neurologist in private practice in the USA earns about $180-190 as per MGMA numbers (an organisation for practice managers). A friend of mine started working for a prime practice in a major US city. Five year partnership track at $180k yearly. None of the partners earn less than half a million.

I work for the VA to 'earn' my green card. THis is a five year commitment. Salary os in the 130ks. When I was a resident I always thought that when your salary hits 100k mark I would be on easy street. I found out that sUch is not the case. Living in an expensive part of the US (NJ metro NYC) does not help, nor does the fact that my wife gave up her $40k job to be with the babies. However, if I did not have credit card debts incurred when being without an income for more than a year whilst wating for the INS paperwork to come through, my salary would be quite comfy. Not enough for a new Ferrari, but instead of tooling about with a couple of old American cars and two Alfas I could conceivably get into a 3x8. I am almost done with my five years. The choice is now, earn a little less and go live where I want to or go for the money. I'll prolly choose the latter. Not so much for the F car, but for the freedom that financial independence buys.

I disagree with the posters disparaging medicine as a career. For every succesful business owner there are 10 who failed. An MD works in a clean environment and after 30 years one's back is still intact. Having done physical low pay labour in my younger years I regard that as a blessing. As a highly shooled ndividual there will always be a roof over your head, food on your table and clothes on your and your childrens' bodies. People will respect you, and often also envy you, with all the negativity that that brings, but hey, better that way than vice versa. You will have a comfortable life. Hard work is relative, a lot of people work hard. Most MDs try and control their time these days. Friday afternoons off are the norm. Call arrangements are shared with others. Remember that for the large majority of the population a 100k salary is a dream that will never come true.

Regarding docs as car lovers: there seem to be very few car people around. Most drive sensible cars, SUVs or low to mid range BMWs, Mercs, Lexi and the like for the status the appear to convey. There is one Porsche at the VA where I work, not counting the Cayenne. I tend to get looks for my Alfa Spider, eliciting comments about fancy cars driven by rich docs ($4k car on a sunny day). Petrol heads are rare. Remarks as 'for that new SUV you could have bought a Ferrari, an E type, and a Dodge Dart for the groceries' are met with blank stares.

 

bpu
Don't be I'm doing what I love.

I just happen to be lucky. Actually five years ago I was happy making the lower numbers. I had to change jobs over a construction lawsuit- I won a paper judgement against a contractor. 160K in attorney fees 190K to finish my house-I had to get a higher paying job. Don't forget those are post tax dollars. That contractor better hope I never get a terminal illness, because he's a dead man.................

I got lucky though, in so doing I tripled my income. Funny though, the more you make the more you spend............I was truly happy though regardless of the income.

The bottom line though is I love what I do. I had to flip you sh*t though because as you can imagine I get those "lifestyle" jabs daily.

But you're absolutely correct about the jealousy part. I have only driven my Ferrari three times to work. I drive the Vanquish and park it nose first- very inconspicuous. Besides most of my colleagues are unfamiliar with Astons. There is a fine line between flying under the radar and enjoying the fruits of your labor. I choose to embrace life and be myself.

As in life some colleagues are genuinely nice people and some are assh0les. The green streak tends to run quite high with physicians-perhaps the tassle?

My two responses to the "I wish I were a rich radiologist jabs" are 1. Not everyone can be at the top of their class/I wasn't as stupid as you
and 2. perhaps if you spent more time working in your office and less time worrying about what other people drive you too can have a nice car.

Westworld
The main problem with medicine is not litigation or lawyers, it is big business/govt. IMHO my two enemies are hospital administrators and insurance companies, not lawyers. These assh0les are cutting costs to increase profits for their shareholders putting the squeeze on us docs, and more importantly treating their patients/customers like sh*t. The JCHAO is the biggest beaurocratic POS in the world. Most hospitals are more interesting in having a "clean chart" than in actually taking care of their patients. And the circle jerk of committees that do absolutely nothing...frankly it is masturbation without ejaculation. Nothing ever gets accomplished. Once again the pimp-whore analogy, all the govt/ins companies/hospital administrators want is to have us docs work for them for free......Like I said the cost of living keeps getting higher and all those MFs want to do is cut reimbursements...but I rant like a lunatic.

All the advances we have made have a snowballing effect. As in computers when one thing is out on the shelves it is already outdated, causing a spiraling of costs for said technologies. But it is the insurance companies and national hospital i.e. big business which will be the ruin of medicine. Frankly it is our own fault- we created hospital administrators and we embraced medicare.......medicine too has now become subject to "the bottom line........"

I resent the "pimp" remark. I am a 100% dago pimp, my nickname really WAS "guido" in college. I fit perfectly in a Ferrari.

1. I wear loud silk shirts outside of slacks and Italian loafers
2. I do indeed wear a "proper" undershirt commonly known as a "wife-beater"
3. I wear a gold bracelet and a gold chain
4. Double barrel pinky rings

Frankly I'm surprised they sold me the Aston...............

 

West

One more thing. The future of medicine will be "cookie cutter" treatment of patients. This is already starting........the diagnosis of pneumonia or CHF reaquires algorithm 1a-7, steps A,B,C,D,E...etc to be performed, if not your local hospital Q/A committee (made up of administrators AND NURSES- hospital administrators pawns) will send you a scolding letter. But that's not the worse part..

Evidence Based Medicine.......... whereby a diagnosis of pneumonia or CHF requires a hospital stay of 6 days etc. If you go over you get a "bad" mark/grade and you don't get reimbursed. And the govt publishes your stats on a web site.................thank Christ I don't deal with patients.

Since when does a disease process cooperate or a patient for that matter fit nicely in this mold........the practice of medicine is both art and science, and the treatment of disease is complex/multifactoral never easy and certainly never so nice and neat that it fits perfectly in a box.

That my friends is the future of medicine...and it sucks donkey____!

At least hospital administrators don't have Ferraris though!

Sorry for the spelling, I'm tired.

 

Not everyone has to be old before they own a Ferrari.... give me a break.. I did it the old fashioned way... "I earned it". I'm only 35 and I could have gotten my first Ferrari much sooner if I chose to. And yes... I am a drug dealer since I'm an ER Doc but I'm not pimp.

 

This is for Frank C., I enjoy your posts. It is interesting that you have only driven your Ferrari to work on 3 occasions. I am a Canadian ophthalmologist and we do relatively well, even with socialized medicine. We are constantly being reminded by our colleagues in other specialties that we are being over-paid and that our lifestyles are easy (i.e. call is extremely light in terms of emergencies ). My response is always the same: if you were smart enough you could also have been an ophthalmologist. That usually shuts them up pretty quick. I am at the stage in my career and my life that I want to finally get something for ME! I am resisting getting an Fcar because of the message it sends. That is why I am interested in the fact that although you own one, you prefer to drive your aston to work. I am in my late 40's, 3 kids, and 100% dago-wop like you (although I am more conservative in clothes, jewelry, etc). Although I recognize that the F430 is probably the best sportscar ever made, I would never hear the end of it from my colleagues. I also feel it doesn't fit my age/lifestyle/image. I am interested in the aston V8 vantage so I was wondering what your opinion was comparing the Fcar to the aston and also your reasons for not driving the ferrari to work more often.

 

Yeah, Bo...maybe become an architect instead. But, according to you awhile back, that's just a trade and architects don't deserve to make as much as doctors, because we're not nobly "saving lives" every day along with you Ben Caseys.

My life story...I graduated from college debt free, by working my way through the last few years...I didn't get through arch. school until I was 27. We never lived beyond our means, paid our house and cars off. I had a good career, played most of my cards right, and retired at 54 with a paid-for Ferrari. Not bad for a tradesman.

 

Reading all the posts makes me want to bring up a published case at the hospital where I work. An experienced trauma surgeon worked on MVC victim & made a 6 million dollar error during surgery. To the exacting surgeon it began as just another life-saving procedure on the job at 3am but ended as nightmare he can never forget. Now, can you live with that for your $250,000.00/year?

 

I probably could have gotten away with a Maranello in silver etc as it is not flashy, and frankly NOT the stereotypical look that the common person associates with the word Ferrari. Actually I had a deposit for a Maranello and when it came time to spec it I had the wife and kids on the net looking at colors and "it looks like a corvette......." and when I showed them a picture of the spider "that's what a Ferrari should look like." So I showed them...I got the spider AND the Vanquish. All I really wanted was the 575.

Going back on topic. Red spider.....Ferrari. Kinda draws attention.

The bottom line is your relationship with your peers and their general practice. Internists can only see X amount of patients a day, etc. Sooner or later they max out. Our lifestyles are far different than our surgeon colleagues. I have one to two afternoons off a week, I'm on call every third week, and I take call at my house, images being sent over the internet. We pay night hawks to take call after 9pm.........makes people very jealous.
Everybody is fighting for that diminishing reimbursement dollar, excesses can rub some people the wrong way.

Once again though, your friends (whether they be colleagues or not) will genuinely be happy for you and the fruits of your labor.


Astons and Ferraris are two different beasts. Ferraris are sports cars and Astons are GTs. I prefer the Aston as a daily driver- comfortable, awesome stereo, V12. The spider is a toy- a balls to the wall, redlining, blow it out your ass blast..........................I don't regret buying either car, but the saying goes once you sit in an aston you'll have one in your garage the rest of your life. That is a statement of fact. But drive them both, if you want a sports car the Ferrari is probably more your style.

FWIW I had an SL 55 which was for the money one helluva car. Just as fast, just as nimble as both for 100K less. And less attention getting than both.

(let's not start that discussion, I'm talking about daily automobiles, not track cars)

I don't track cars- not interested. These are nothing but cars to me and would serve me the same as an 84 cavalier. Drive them both and get what you want. Life is too short and we've worked too hard to get to where we are to not enjoy life..................

 

BIG DITTO!

 

DBWorld:
I think I saw a post asking about being an oral surgeon. You will put 4 years of undergrad school in, then 4 years of dental school, then 5 more to be an oral surgeon. If you go that route, the only one to consider would be a dual degree, MD and Oral Surgeon. You can then branch out into the very lucrative cosmetic surgery area.
Most oral surgeons only make a little more than an average gp dentist in saturated metropolitan areas. On the other hand, a good general dentist with good prosthodontic skills will far surpass the income of the surgeon, with the added benfit of not having to be on a hospital staff and play hospital politics. No on call and you work as often as you like. Most of us work 4 days a week, no on call, and very few emergencies.
In dentistry now, the two ideal areas to focus on are either cosmetics or restorative/prosthodontics. I personally have chosen the prosthodontics in my career twenty years ago without specializing though. If you specialize in that field, you end up with all the headache referrals and problem cases that mosts gp's don't want. As a gp. you can pick and choose. With todays aging population, prostho demand is huge. Cosmetic demand is high but mostly in metropolitan areas with the younger generations that are more consumers than patients. That can be a real pain the --- and not nearly as lucrative since you have to spend much more time along with higher expenses due to remaking work to meet the patients demands which are frequently unrealistic. The key is to be able to identify them before treatment and refer them to the prostho guys
All in ll though, I feel dentistry is a much better place to be than medicine.
Total autonomy.

 

Rrrrreeeeeeeooooouuuuuuu.........

And the cat fight begins....

I couldn't agree with you more. I can't believe what I'm getting paid, for doing what I love.......................

But I ain't gonna give it back......

 

Pretty cool..People don't get turned off by the SL 500 badge? It's a sexy and expensive car.

 

That was my post. I meant to ask Oral and Maxillofaical Surgeon.