The NASCAR bashing thread...

The fact that you compared Baseball to NASCAR means that you cannot be enlightened.

I agree that going around in circles cannot be considered as real racing. But you seem to have missed the boat as far as Baseball is concerned.

 

Actually the engine technology in nascar is very applicable to Aussie V8 supercars, and the BHP they get of of old pushrod clunkers is pretty good.

But yeah..... on your side here... gimme multi cams, multi valves alloy blocks, sequential boxes and double wishbone independant suspension, and we can at least discuss a technically interesting motorsport category...

 

I agree Nascar can get a bit boring but it was only this year after a few years of boredom that Formula 1 got even remotely interesting.

Fact is I love automotive racing and enjoy it in nearly all its forms and I'd rather watch a bunch of cars (in any series) in close racing than the highly spaced out exercise Formula 1 often becomes after about three laps. As far as live entertainment goes I'd rather be a VIP at a F1 event than a Nascar event.

Perhaps you should enlighten yourself by driving a race car around an oval at 170mph and then see what you think. POC, Ferrari, all the local clubs have various events at Fontana Raceway in California in which they use one side of the banked oval before going into the infield. One of my friends announced that he had a new found respect for Nascar drivers after he found himself entering the oval at 170mph and dodging slower traffic to boot.

Just a thought.

 

Modern formula 1 is just as boring as nascar if not more so than NASCAR. the only reason i love formula 1 is cause i was raised it and was never able to get into NASCAR. hell at least NASCAR drivers have personalities and aren't just these mindless PC tools that F1 drivers have become.

 

It's motorsport because there are 30 other cars trying to pass you. If you are going 200 all alone then fair enough but add the huge fields and how much skill is actually involved in going faster than the guy next to you then you'll understand how it's motorsport. In some ways because of the competive aspect of the races NASCAR has more actual "sport" than F1 which can be processional. Many people find F1 boring and wonder how it's motorsport.

 

As someone who has been to both in person, i will say that nascar is just as impressive to the senses as F1. The noise is equal as is the speed especially on the banked turns.

Of course the tracks are boring except for the few road courses. I like F1 much more because of the shape of the cars and the tracks but the competition in nascar is much better. F1 should do whatever it takes to continue to improve competition like it has this year.

 

Well guys you have good points and I agree with some of them.

Let's agree that we cannot compare the two because they very different animals. I for one cannot get into Nascar because I think the cars are sloppy and not very good to look at. Ever see those cars flop around on a road course? Yuck..If it was not for sponsorship the cars would not have any character. Can't say the same for F-1, remember the Ferrari 9-11 tribute car with the black nose.

I know one thing for sure that watching Nascar on a short oval is dreadful! How is that fun to watch? It's like watching paint dry. If they have to race on an oval why don't they make some of them bigger for cryin' out loud. As far as the sound goes I really don't think you can compare it to the F-1 sound at 19,000 RPM. It's all about your taste. Some people think Harley's sound kool but I think they are just straight up annoying. Watching an F-car shooting through a tunnel now that is what I am talking about.

Yes maybe the drivers in F-1 can be a little more colorful but at least you don't see them throwing punches at each other like you do in Nascar. How about a little class you awl'...
Thanks!
Vince

 

I recommend (and I mean this sincerely) that you do a little research. Sure the sport appeals more to the blue collar guys out there, but it really is a complex form of motor racing. There is TONS of strategy, the cars are "built"(cough) to run "equally" and for a full 200+ miles these guys are running door handle to door handle. I don't believe that there is another motor sport out there where drafting & pushing is more important. In fact, I would venture to say that those guys are probably the best at it in the world.

Another thing, I think for you to really understand why this is a sport and many of these guys could arguably make the jump to F1, I think you should go to a Dirt Track race. Now those guys can drive. If you don't think so, then you try controlling a 500hp beast around a dirt track, let alone racing against 10-20 other guys. Most of the NASCAR guys got their start on dirt & as a result, their car control is pretty damn good.

On the other hand, I am not knocking your opinion. I know that there are a lot of people out there who refuse to give NASCAR a second glance because they view it as a "redneck" sport, but if you are truly a speed guy, and truly into cars, racing, and driver skill, I challenge you to do a little research, and even go to an event. I promise that if you go into it with an open mind your opinion of NASCAR might just change a little.

As for the tracks being boring, well, stand on the bank of Talladega or Daytona & take note of the angle of the bank and the length of the track, or go to one of the smaller ovals that measure right at 1 mile long and imagine racing 20-30 other guys around it (in cars roughly equal to yours). The sport is not as simple as racing around an oval would have you believe. These guys are SERIOUS.

Oh yeah, and at the end of the day, there is nothing like hearing 30 small block pushrod V8's with open exhaust roar to life at one time.

 

I recall at the fiirst USGP at Indy that MS said in an interview when asked about NASCAR something to the effect that "...that's too dangerous for me...I'll stick to F1...". I have done the Petty NASCAR Driving Experience and can attest that it is harder than it looks to keep those cars on the banks at speed...

 

I guess you missed MS and Sata at SPA?

 

This is like the "Why Lamborghini is better than Ferrari" threads. Gimme a break.

Some of the best racing I've ever sen is NASCAR. It's a different animal than F1 and IRL. Some people find soccer boring too you know.

Anyone watch Champ car lately? What a snore. F1 has been a snore for years with Schummi dominating. Oh, you guys like him for the red car so it's been more exciting for that. But really now, follow the leader is not a spectator sport. IRL is fun but they need a better level of driver overall. Frankly, if the F1 boys raced ovals I'd like that better than NASCAR.

I enjoy all kinds of racing, but I like passing, pit stratagy, wrecks, more passing, close finishes, some passing. Which series gives you the most of that?

Ken

 

I never liked NASCAR much until Speedchannel took over, but they won me over with their coverage and the young racers that are now racing (Kyle and Kurt Busch, Gordon, J.Johnson, .................). For those who don't think it's racing maybe you should ask yourself why someone like Paul Tracey would be interested in NASCAR if it's not racing. It ain't the money...Paul has plenty of funds.

Sure it's entertainment but I watch some forms of racing for entertainment (NASCAR, NASCAR trucks, IRL) and others for non-entertainment (F1, ALMS....). If you watch the 24 Hours of LeMans or F1 for entertainment you're a pretty boring individual. I watch f1 for the technology and the fact that Ferrari races in F1.

This is from an older post on NASCAR that airs my views:

What I get sick of hearing is all the bull**** about how NASCAR is nothing but "turn left, turn left" and that none of those guys could cut it anywhere else.

On the BMW forum there were all sort of silly predictions about Gordon putting the FW24 into the wall. Some predicted he would be at least 5-10 seconds off PJM's pace (he actually beat JPM"s morning warm up time).

Then I saw a post in "General Discussion" on this board about someone's wife doing 170 mph at a NASCAR Experieince (Richard Petty Driving or something like this) and that it was easy driving a stock car. Bullsh*t !!

Just because you can drive a detuned stock car or Indy car (Petty Experience, Driving 101, etc) doesn't prove that NASCAR is easy. The cars you drive at these events are setup for maximum grip and not maximum speed. they crank so much downforce into those cars and dial in a bunch of understeer. Most people are driving those cars at 160 or 170 at 7/10's the cars potential were it set up right.

There is a difference between slowly working your way up to 150 on an open track at 7/10ths of the cars potential AND running in a pack of 43 cars many of whom are grafted onto your rear bumper pushing you donw the track at 170-190 mph.

I have a friend who piloted a MIG 27 for 30 minutes through one of those adventure comanies in Russia that lets you fly a MIG. Doesn't mean he could engage in airial combat with a bunch of F16's at Mach2.

Many of these comments come from people who don't race or have never been on a race track except for the bleachers.

I am not a die hard NASCAR supporter but some folks need to shut the &%^% up about something they know nothing about. Many of the people in NASCAR have boat loads of talent and have won at every level of racing on the lower ladders (Sprint cars, dirt track racing, off road racing etc. and even open wheeled cars).

If it's so damn easy how come many accomplished road racers can't cut it there. Look at John Andretti, Scott Pruett, Ron Fellows, and now Christian Fittipaldi. None have done well. Look at how Dale Snr. got into a Corvette CR5 at Daytona and ran lap times that were on par with Fellows and the other regulars. Then he proceeded run fast laps at Daytona in the pouring rain at night. Kyle Petty a sub par NASCAR racer has done some good racing in a 996 GT3RS at Daytona and other tracks in Grand Am.

I can undestand if some don't like NASCAR purely from an interest standpoint (i.e. cars are old tech and don't look cool, you don't like oval racing etc). But to constantly bash them as something other than real racers with no talent is stupid. Kind of like someone who never made it past high school basketball acting like an expert on the NBA.

I guess it boils down to ignorance of many who think they know racing because they spend a few hours a week with their Playstation II or X-Box.

There was also a general consensus that JPM was bored to death driving Gordon's car. Might be true but he didn't say so and I don't think any of the people making these comments were there. Just because you drive the world's fastest and most technologically advanced car doesn't mean you can't enjoy something else.

JPM still enjoys driving and racing his shifter karts down in Florida and even works on them himself at the track.

Whatever floats your boat but I don't get much of an adrenaline rush whacking a small white ball with a stick much less watching others do so on TV. Doesn't mean it doesn't take world class skill just that it doesn't interest me.

Jon

 

Echo base ?
What you have against Nascar buddies ?
Wait a minute...
Good Lord ! Too many 'burgers. Too much Bud'... I'm toooooo heavy, geez, I'm not fat it's nut true, holy sh.. I'm going to craaaaaaaash...

Jek "Porky" Porkins. R.I.P. (The one who drove his X-wing starfighter like a NAS-car).
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you know at the usgp this year i was so close to buying a shirt that read
to stupid for opera
to smart for nascar
Formula 1

 

Nope.

Ken

 

Oh, sure. 100,000 people at the USGP and the _all_ have track experience (and none are NASCAR fans). Or the 60,000 in France. Or all those track junkies in China, where racecars are so prevalent...

 

That's even more of a stereotypical myth. I'd venture to guess that a higher percentage of people at a NASCAR race have actually raced on small town dirt tracks or done low budget super modifieds.

And as for "people who have tracked" their cars...what makes you think some guy in a fancy smancy Sparco doing parade laps at an Ferrari Club Event would know anything about REAL racing?

Having your car on a track surface doesn't constitute racing or constitute having any real knowledge of racing.

Regards,

Jon (who watches NASCAR and F1 and does actually race)

 

You know, NASCAR is a multi billion dollar business. There is so much money in it, you know the drivers are going to be the cream of the crop. No one is going to spend what it costs to race with a second rate driver. Granted, within the ranks, a handful shine above the rest, (as in F1) but the 'worst' cup driver will kick the butt of pretty much anyone in Ferrarichat on a track. Badly.

Thinking because most are from the south makes them any less skillful than the F1 guys is just plain prejudice. As far as entertainment value, different strokes for different folks. You can't argue taste.

Ken

 

Good Points ! However, I'd caution your statement about the "worst" cup driver kicking butt against everyone on Ferrarichat. There are quite a few accomplished racers on this forum.

Regards,

Jon

 

I did do a vague qualifier there! Never know who's really here. LOL But I also have a healthy respect for just how good the pros are; not just lap times but 'how to race to win' as well.

ken

 

I've been to two events; Brickyard qualifying way back when (back when Indy Cars actually raced @ Indy) and to Charlotte.

During Brickyard qualifying, I asked my friend when the cars were going to be at race / qualifying speed...he said "...they are...". After watching an Indy Car run average lap speeds of 230 - 232 at the time, NASCAR was too damn slow. You could have a picnic on the start/finish line until they came around again.

Charlotte...maybe it was the redneck factor that made me walk out...plus, I honestly didn't find it all that fun to watch.

 

Gods honest truth....I actually fell asleep in the stands at a Nascar event in Las Vegas. Thats all I have to say.

Mark