Who's had their belt break?

A search will turn up many varients of your question, try it!

Having said that.......,

I bought a 1982 Mondial. The paper work looked very good. All receipts, recent belt change (within 3000 miles/2 years). What I failed to notice is the mechanic did NOT change the tensioner bearings. On the way home the rear bank bearing locked up. Did I neglect to say the way home involved a drive from LA, CA to Raleigh, NC? Sorry.

I got to spend a week in beautiful downtown Grants, MN. I was incredibly, unbelievably, lucky that the belt did not break. Lots of smoke, lots of noise, but no broken belt.

If you change the belts CHANGE THE BEARINGS. VERY cheap insurance.

Paul

 

I had a belt break once. Good thing my pants weren't loose!

Good luck finding an instance of a broken belt.

 

lol!!!!!!me too, i have gotten so fat that i do not worry about a broken belt and i dont have to do the routine belt change every 3 years anymore....

 

Just the alternator belt. 550 died within 2 miles.

 

A long time lister from the FerrariList, had a belt break at 14K miles that was the death nell of his ownership. Most wont ever admit it happened as its a black mark no one usually wants to admit they allowed to happen, and its bad history for the car. So this is why you wont find much on the subject. One person ventured that some cars that burned may have had broken belts prior to thier fire. The cost to repair the engine after a blown belt at speed can far exceed the cost of a standard rebuild. Just think about couphing up about $15K when it happens. You may get by cheaper, but then again.......

 

DING!!!! Give the man a cigar and a scotch..he's so right its not even close to being funny.

 

Could someone explain ther reasons why Ferrari recommends changing belts at 30K, whereas most all other manufacturers with belt-driven camshafts recommend MUCH longer intervals? Surely the belts Ferrari uses aren't made of rubber that is THAT inferior to Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc?

 

Right. It's almost always a case of "I know of 'so and so' who had a belt break"
but I can't recall anyone saying "MY belt broke" at any mileage, much less within the proper change interval. Not saying it can't happen, but it is unlikely.

 

Ferrari has created a fear that gets everyone back for those $5,000 service jobs. How many Ferraris can a dealer sell per year? If they make 5,000 cars, maybe they have 500 dealerships, that means average 10 cars each. How much can you make selling ten Ferraris a year? Gross profit of $2,000,000? If you service five a day at an average of $2,000 each, that's $10,000/day x 250 days, there's another $2,500,000. Service fear keeps people coming back to the dealer, paying full list on parts and $125/hour labor. There are places where lawyers do not make $125/hr but a Ferrari grease monkey makes that kind of money? The economies of scale are out of whack and the only way to sustain such is FEAR.

 

Yup....I will also add that the local independant in the NW seems to get one or two cars per year with belts that slipped (they rarely actually break). The cars typically are very neglected 308's and Mondials...and usually not active enthusiasts that you would find on a board like this or even in the FCA. Folks like us a "properly indoctrinated" and know the drill on services. I cannot recall many belts failing within the prescribed service interval, but it has been mentioned a couple times on this board.

 

That is my suspicion as well....I think it is just about impossible for a belt of even middle-of-the-road quality to outright fail within 30,000 miles / 5 years. Of course, a $20,000 engine rebuild will strike FEAR in the heart of just about anybody! I did the belts a while back while replacing the water pump on my brother's mitsubishi 3000GT at like 120,000 miles, and they still looked good. I think Mitsubishi's recommended interval is 80 or 100,000 miles / 10 years. Their belts can't be THAT much better than Ferrari's belts. In fact, there is a good chance they are made by the same company in Taiwan or wherever!

 

A Ferrari tech making 125 bucks an hour? Ha shows how much you know. The mechanic working at Ford will make way more money then a Ferrari tech ever will. Do you hounestly belive that the rate you pay a shop goes into the techs pocket? If it did I would be retired with a garage full of Ferrari's!

That $125 goes towards salaries, building manitenance,tools and equipment, buying parts for stock, paying the guy behined the counter that takes your keys, helps pay for the dealer to have cars in the showroom and coffee in the pot. The tech will make maybe 23 bucks an hour out of that door rate. Now please think about things before you say them.

 

...and my esteemed colleague didn't even begin to discuss the institutional requirements placed on the dealership from FNA (training, tooling, etc.). Carrying another $200K in inventory and running Challenge teams is pricey too!

 

Your brother's Mitsubishi doesn't run to 8K rpm. Moreover, most Ferraris get driven HARD every time the owner turns the key. Add to that, the "sitting" time when the car doesn't move for months on end and things get brittle/dried out.

Folks, Ferrari isn't the evil empire, nor is FNA. They didn't just cook this stuff up to screw us. They are pretty damn good engine designers, and are frankly trying to protect your investment --- and ensure a large number of 30+ year old Ferraris are still on the road. How many 30 year old Mitsubishis are still being driven like a Ferrari?

 

i had my belt break on my mondial t

didn't actually break but rather sheared off several teeth

same thing though

valve job on both heads

ever since then i do them every 5 years (on any car i own)

cheap insurance if you ask me

plus, there's usually other reasons to go in there (i.e. leaks, other bearings,) not just for the "timing belt(s)" as people put it

i have met two other people over the last 10 years who have had belts break,
and they have since moved away from ferrari's in general.... so i don't think you're gonna get a good concensus here anyways

people here are more anal about keeping their cars up....or at least i thought


just my opinion

 

I guess I can see why people start to get irritated when this subject keeps coming up every few days, yet it keeps getting asked, and we keep getting the same idiotic answers. The reason I didnt list the guys name is because I dont think its anyones damned buisness to hear it from other than him, and he aint around anymore. His belt broke at 14K miles. It was not on some used and abused neglected car, it was on a car that was regularly driven and maintained, and it caused considerable damage. The financial toll forced him away from F car ownership. How many of you can afford a $15K repair bill on your $25K car?

You guys out there who want to compare these 308 engines to Toyotas and Hondas, you go ahead and roll the dice. These arent Jap engines that run along down the highway at 1800 rpm with an occasion blip to 6500, they crank up and stay cranked up all the time. Also, the pulleys are smaller, making a tighter arc for the belt to turn through. This wasnt, IMO, some BS design, it was for performance. Smaller pulleys are lighter and easier to rev. Plastic pulleys are lighter. Even given the same engine speeds, with the Ferrari having smaller pulleys it will always work the belts harder.

Additionaly, when a belt breaks on many other engines, it generally doesnt do the level of damage it will do on a Ferrari, nor will the parts be as high in cost. You will damage the heads if they break at high speed, now you either need a head, or need it welded. Personally, I like my "original" heads in untouched and unrepaired condition. I don't like welded up heads.

I looked at buying a 308 for many many years. I religiously read Hemmings, and watched the various internet sites. I seen many many cars for sale over those years with damaged engines from blown belts. I have toured T Rutlands, and seen thier core engine pile. Its not really very pretty. I personally, with my own eyeballs (which still may not account for anything to some of you) seen a 308 motor that blew a rod out its side due to a belt breaking. The valve snapped off, and probably because of high engine speed, grenaded the piston, which twisted up the rod and blew it out through the liner and out the rear of the block. The explosion pushed a chunk of metal through the gearbox. The only salvageable part was one cylinder head and various gearbox parts. You wont fix that kind of damage for $15K either.

Obviously that was an extreme case, but like the guy I knew on Flist, I could not afford that kind of damage. There are apparently some who claim they have driven over 50K, and one over 80K miles with no breakage. I say good for them, but I dont want thier car either. And, I like having my original parts and knowing my car has been taken care of. 30K miles or 5 years could still be rolling the dice, but its surely not extreme for a car of this calibre. If you really want a car to treat like a Honda, maybe you should buy one of those and leave the F cars for people who will take care of them properly.

 

Krowbar my friend..your wasting your breath with this topic. Myself, Brain, David and the other techs on this board have already tried to explain this topic many, many times. It seems everytime I check the tech section sombody is asking about timing belts breaking etc.

YES THEY DO BREAK!!! end of story. They break on Hondas, they break on Fords, the break on Chryslers and any other belt driven valvetrain car out there. Is 3 years a little too much? Yes I belive it is..ON CARS THAT ARE DRIVEN REGULARLY. A car that gets driven once a year for 200km..then every 3 years sounds right. A car that is used and a regular basis..easily 5 years service.

 

The dealerships charge $125 an hour for service in my area. How much of the 125 goes to the actual mechanic is not at issue. If I go to an attorney and he charges $200 an hour, a reasonable rate (actually cheap) around me, no one gives me a break down. So if I get billed for three hours of the attoney's time ($600), I do not get an invoice that says....

$12.00, that free cup fo coffee we gave you
$3.12, the electricity so your appoinment was not in the dark
$7.37, our new $20,000 copier used for your case
$46.93, our receptionist's new DD tits
$94.36, our legal sectretary's time typing your stuff
$33.28, your share of lawyer's Mercedes payment

yada yada yada

In the end where the money goes, how it gets divided, and who makes what % is not at issue, what is at issue is that the dealerships around here charge and get $125/hour. On the flip side, at Ford they charge $68/hour by me, so Ferrari is getting DOUBLE. Even though the Ferrari dealership is an overall nicer place, better quality tits, a designer coffee instead of Folder's, it is not TWICE as nice, it is 25% nicer. So $85/hour would be more in line with what it SHOULD cost. How do you get 142% more than $85/hour? FEAR. Is the Ferrari mechanic better than the Ford mechanic? I would say they have different experience, but are doing a similar job. The way the Ferrari dealership justifies its fees is their guy is "specialized", similar to a patent lawyer getting more per hour than an ambulance chaser on average. In reality is doing an oil change or set of plugs require this specialization? No, you need the specialist once in a blue moon realistically, but you are not afforded $85.00/hour when your job is simple and the junior man does the work.

 

How old are you really? Did you ever stop to think insurance alone would be higher for a dealer that sells and services 300k cars? What about liabilites that the shop and business has to prepair for? Do you really think that if something happends to a car at a ford dealer it would cost the same to fix the same damage to a Ferrari? What if a Ferrari leaves the shop and the tech forgets to tighten the the cam pullies after a major service? Do you think the Ford would cost the same to repair?

When you are dealing with high priced cars, you dealing with high priced repairs and high priced screw ups if they happen..and they do. If you ruin a valve on a Ford by dropping it on the floor..big deal..15 bucks gets ya a new one. Drop a valve on the floor from a Ferrari 200 bucks gets a new one..and ya gotta wait 2 weeks to get it.

You just have no idea, do you?

 

Ferrari dealership expenses are not double, their copier costs the same, they pay the same electricity rate, they pay the same amount per gallon of water from teh municipality, they have SOME expenses that are higher. When you demand DOUBLE the money, ALL of their expenses should be DOUBLE as well, which they are not. It is free market capitalism, they charge it because they can get it, which is fine, but don't shine me on and tell me their insurance costs 5x more to create the double expense. I use to pay $100,000+/year in liability insurance and I know what the maximum payouts per occurance are, about having umbrella coverage beyond that, etc.....

 

[QUOTE

When you are dealing with high priced cars, you dealing with high priced repairs and high priced screw ups if they happen..and they do. If you ruin a valve on a Ford by dropping it on the floor..big deal..15 bucks gets ya a new one. Drop a valve on the floor from a Ferrari 200 bucks gets a new one..and ya gotta wait 2 weeks to get it.

You just have no idea, do you?[/QUOTE]

I wish I was a baker.

A bad day and I drop a tray of cakes. Big deal.

 

Phil, Tom, and Daniel,

You guys are wasting your breathe with some of these folks.

simply put :
Some people just don't understand that there's a higher level of talent, patience, skill, learning curve, and risk involved needed to work on Fcars vs. Fords.
Thus, it deserves more $$$.

alot people out there simply can't afford to be driving these cars and wanna drive for free.

alot of people out there making payments let alone fork out the cash for maintanence.

sad truth

like i said i learned the hard way.
over ten years ago, i bought a used mondial t and just thought i could drive the damn thing, then BANG !

from then on my motto has been : find a good honest mechanic and LISTEN to what he's telling you !

(I told this story about my timing belt breaking a while back....probably in the archieves somewhere.....this topic comes up every now and then but i rarely respond because it's simply a waste of time,,,,,,sort of like the topic of doing the timing belts on an F355 with the subframe still in the car....you just can't talk to non technical people in a technical fashion )

lastly, i think part of the fun in the hobby of owning a ferrari is in keeping it properly maintained, maybe even overly maintained,
as opposed to barely maintained

 

My take on all this:
1) FNA, dealers, and techs are not evil, just trying to make a living.
2) Following proper maintenance intervals is vital on a Ferrari.
3) From personal experience, dealers WILL try to get you to have more service performed than the manual calls for.
4) Belts break. It is rare, but a catastrophic event.

Bottom line: The best balance is following what the manual says. Take a look at it before buying to decide if you can afford to own a Ferrari.

 

My belt broke on my 348, on 48K km (about 30k miles)
normal repair bill : 30.000$, but they took a second hand 8.000 km engine block to replace it, so the bill wass cut to half, still 15.000$ !!!
they changed the whole engine block ...
I will never forget, I was on my way to the F1 at Spa-Francorchamps, on the highway, ..