Nice thread. I personally would choose the NSX, esp. the 3.2 over a 348 whether it is a daily driver or a weekend car. If you compare the NSX 3.2 to a 355 it is a tough 50-50 choice. (I love the 355, more than the 360). I've driven 348s and NSXs over the years and my business partner still has an NSX in his stable. I *think* when you do a track day comparing laptimes of NSX and 348 the underpowered NSX will win hands down. Even today the 3.2l NA2 NSX-R laptimes in Top Gear Stig times is 1:33 on a very wet track. P Zonda - 1:23 Murcielago - 1.29 Noble - 1:33 (wet) NSX-R - 1:33 (wet) F 575 - 1:35 (wet) AM Vanquish - 1:36 Wet track takes 4 seconds according to them, so theoritically on a dry track the NSX-R should be a ble to make it in 1:29.... now that's Murci territory! I've also d/l the Japanese vid titled BEST MOTORING SUPERCAR BATTLE 2002, a track battle of street supercars including F50, Murci, Porsche GT2, Gemballa 500, C4S, NSX-R. All were driven by Japanese race drivers for 3 laps in SUGO INTERNATIONAL RACE TRACK (3.73km long) . The Murci can barely pass the NSX-R!! It was a tight race between the two. The result: 1st F50 2nd GT2 3rd Murci 4th NSX-R 5th Gemballa Biturbo GT 500 6th 911 C4S Total 3 laps time: F50 - 5:02.029 GT2 - 5:03.880 Murci - 5:08.307 NSX-R - 5:08.577 Gemballa - 5:10.087 911C4S - 5:23.168 At the end of the 3 laps race The NSX-R lose to Murci by only 0.5s !!! Hmmm.. a 290hp V6 against 570hp V12. Suprisingly a V6 Honda is still competitive on track in 2005 as it was in 1991. Best lap time: F50 - 1:38.573 GT2 - 1:38.938 Murci - 1:39.834 NSX-R - 1:40.265 Gemballa - 1:40.571 911 C4S - 1:44.141 (Do a search of this 34.4MB vid. It is truly awesome with in-car cameras, footwell cameras, etc). For more vids of "regular" NSX go here: http://nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/multimedia.htm 3.2 NSX 0-400m against a F355 http://nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/ferrari_355-nsx_type_s_zero.mpg Personally, I think comparing an NSX 3.0 vs 348 I would vote for the NSX, but if you compare the NA2 NSX 3.2 to a 355 it is a matter of passion/heart, not logic, although for heavy track use I stil vote for NSX 3.2, but as a weekend drive I vote for the 355. NSX is a nice car, easy to drive for average non-Senna driver, working electronics, etc. It was a big surprise when It was introduced in the 90s. Too bad it didn't evolve quick enough and became too expensive, more than a 911C2 which has centuries of race fame and Porsche legend, Naturally the NSX sales plummet. I only the car has a different front badge not "H" but let's say a raging bull, then people will sing praise for it, kneel before it , que to buy it, say the car has a soul, bla .. bla .. bla.. The supercar market is a thin and tough one. Honda thought they can break into the market with a superior product after their success with the launch of Acura brand. They failed (in sales terms). If I was given a choice of '05 NSX-R to a '75 countach LP 400 periscopa or an '83 5000s (one of the heaviest and slowest countach) I would take the countach hands down, although the NSX-R would eat the LP 400/5000s for breakfast. I cannot explain why I would want to drive a car with 0 rear (and front) visibility, rock-like clutch, herculean steering, baking interior, deep-fried electronics, etc. I hope Honda makes the right NSX next time, and not lose money again.
Get a 911 or a Maserati. A 911 is 'more' and the Maser is the junior drivable Ferrari. Both are daily drivable, as you know.
i thought about the maserati, but not raw enough for me, its too much of a gt car, beautiful nonetheless, no doubts there. As for a 911, its too common for me, not really what i am looking for, also amazing car, one of my buddies has one, very fast, but Just not my cup of tea. I love the feeling of a midengined car. My main choices are going to remain the 348 or nsx as far as I can tell for now. Unless I see a deal on a 355, or something else comes up, I think these are going to be the main choices, especiall since there is just something about the 348 that shoots at me, even moreso than a 355 to me.
Normal folk don't buy Ferraris. Normal folk buy Mercedes, Lexus and whatever if they can afford an entry level Ferrari. It is not the price that makes a Ferrari exclusive. It is the heritage, the rarity and the 'if I have to explain you would not understand' factor (well worn Harley cliche, but valid nonetheless). People like or don't like cars for lots of different reasons. Some people will not buy a Honda no matter how great. Some people will not buy a yellow car even if it is the deal of the century. I will not buy a Honda or an Opel if I can get an Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati, etc. The Japanese cars may be better. The German cars may be better. I don't care. I lke the Italians "Con brio" as they say. My Alfa can hardly be considered a "snootery caste system" purchase. Yet it is recognized as an enthusiast car with that Italian passion, beauty, and a joy of driving and owning that I would not get from a German or Japanese car. And it has brand cachet. Does that matter? Well, yes. It is fun to own a car with unrivalled pedigree going back to the dawn of the automobile area. As it matters to Ferrari owners, Porsche owners and other distinguished automotive brands. I appreciate that it doesn't matter to a lot of people, but to me it does. Yet I understand that someone else may be equally chuffed with his or her Subaru WRX or souped up Dodge Dart. It really does not matter. I think the raw nerves are your own.
the more i see these 348's, mainly because theyve become more affordable, i realise how stricking they are. their just simply beautiful, the nsx dosnt have the same presence, at all.
Just came back from a drive by the coast. I parked it next to me, 5m from the beach & enjoyed the morning sun while I read the papers & breathe the fresh air. That lone red 348 behind me simply looks awesome & to every single cyclists & joggers who passed by. It sounds good, looks good & drives with lots of fun. NSX was built at great expense of Honda & if I'm not wrong, they even had a new factory specially built to manufacture them. In Japan or parts of Asia, the NSX is still worshipped. It has so much comfortable & electronic features that Porsche & Ferrari didn't offer then. 348 wasn't the best in Ferrari's book but I don't care, it's a car you learn to drive & get used to. For daily comfort & practicality get the NSX. For everything else that makes you passionate, get the Ferrari.
14 years ago, Honda presented us this unique machine. Its an aluminum mid-engined super car with a small, VTEC-equipped 3-litre V6 good for 270hp. Ran faster than it ought to be. Corners with precision embarrassing Ferrari 328 or 348. The most special is that it is extremely refined, comfortable and easy to drive. Honda stunned the world in one night. The NSX as stated was a Ferrari competitor. The fact that you would drive it easily, that the handling was sharp yet forgiving, that it was THE debut of VTEC, far simpler and infinitely more reliable (never a warranty claim on a single VTEC engine) than the Titolo variable valve timing system on the 355 was the very point of the car. At 3.2 liters it only got better. Incidentally, the body in aluminum is something Ferrari failed on with the 355 and got working in time for the 360M, close to 10 years later...... Ferrari's system by comparison is infinitely variable but uses a questionable method to do it - cam lobes aren't ground in the usual manner, ground parallel to the cam, but at an angle to it. At the upper part this corresponds to extreme high-speed running, at the lower end very low speed running. A hydraulic actuator is then used to slide all four cams across the valve actuating mechanisms (eg left and right) according to engine speed. To mechanical linkage to get the valve actuating as intended as you can imagine is *****y, converting that angle to something parallel to where it's meant to be going, there are a fair few fine parts involved, invariably this requires more oil pressure and more maintenance. Development costs are also higher, as are production costs, as the cams can't be ground in a usual manner, have to still actuate five valves per cylinder and the different loads placed on this style of cam requires different heat treatment to your average cam. These development costs aren't easily recovered as the 355/360 are the only engines that use this system VVT is useless on a race car as it adds weight, complexity (not good as high engine speeds) and smooth low-speed running isn't necessary. Maserati may use it. You couldn't license it to Alfa, Lancia or Fiat or the like as it's just too expensive and complex. Although not as flexible in it's delivery as it comes on a a "changeover point" only and thereafter, VTEC (valve and lift version as on the NSX) is realistically the better system being far simpler, more serviceable and reliable, and besides if you're really gunning it you're always going to be above that "changeover point" anyway; not being able to vary parameters within the high speed mode as per the Titolo system gives a very small disadvantage away but compared to the maintenance involved in driving a Ferrari as intended (engine rebuilds every 40,000-60,000km). Further, VTEC is scaleable, you can actuate it on exhaust only, inlet only, valve phase only etc. that it is far more cost effective in being able to be applied to a far wider range of vehicles in a variety of applications. More money implies more development cash - realized in projects like the S2000 engine - 9000rpm redline, full VTEC features and if looked after I don't expect it to break anytime soon. The 348 was new from the ground up. It started as a fresh sheet of paper and changed Ferrari's thoughts on how automobiles should be built. Virtually every component of the 348 was new, the only holdover from the 328 being the basic V8, mid-engined sports car layout. Where the 328 had a separate chassis and body, the 348 was built with unitized construction. Where the 328 had a transverse engine, the 348 had a longitudinal one. And where the 328 transaxle sat under its engine, the 348's was attached behind its V8 and mounted in a transverse position. Ferrari has traditionally been a follower when it comes to technology. Enzo Ferrari was legendary for his resistance to disc brakes and mid-engined cars. The 348 finally featured up-to-date components, and its innovative use of manufacturing technology set it far ahead of the supercar competition. The 348 was designed to be built faster, cheaper and less labor-intensive than any previous Ferrari. So was this 100-mile 348 coupe a good buy? It depends on if you want a 100-mile 348 coupe. Despite the significance the 348 may have played in Ferrari's manufacturing history, it was a dud in the marketplace. Its design was uninspiring and the impressive drivetrain performance was compromised by a far-less-impressive chassis. The electronics, perhaps in an unintended homage to the notoriously finicky Mondials, were plagued with gremlins that caused warning lights to illuminate erroneously, and control computers to fail prematurely. There weren't enough problems to call the 348 a bad car, but there were too many to call it a good one. Further, the 355 and the 360 that followed were better cars in every way, including that all-important aspect of visual appeal. Without question, you'll get more attention showing up at a club meet in a Modena Spyder than you will in a 348 coupe. The 348 styling and the NSX styling are both exotic in nature and any opinions expressed are just that. A matter of personal taste. At the right price a good 348 offers an enormous amount of performance for not much money, but you get no prancing horse swagger. Furthermore, it will never appreciate. What car would I want........ A F430 of course!
Wrong. There appears to be very little snobbery, certainly among Ferrari owners, on this forum there are owners of very rare and very expensive million dollars worth antique Ferraris, exotics like Enzos and F40s, happily mixing it with more plebeian 250GTEs, 3x8s, and even with non-Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette and Alfa Romeo etc etc owners.
nice detailed, educated post. Much appreciated. But nonetheless, Nothing is really attacking me on the decision. I WANT the 348, I just dont know if its worth it moreso than the nsx would be to get.
Then get the 348, and enjoy. I don't think you can make a wrong decision with either car, unless money (practicality) is your concern, in which case the NSX wins hands down. Like I said, there are folks who'll worship a Ferrari if it's a Yugo with a prancing horse badge. Those folks refer to "soul" and "passion" like it's something mystical. Honda has a very proud and respected racing heritage, that's what the NSX reflects, and was born from. It is a great compliment to Ferrari that Honda targeted the Ferrari with the NSX. The fact that the NSX is such a fantastic all around car speaks to its incredible design. 99% of the people who bash the NSX as another "Accord" have never driven one, and have no business putting their foot in their mouths. Cheers.
Listen, we all know that the japanese make the best cars. Every year it's the same here in Holland and Germany in the polls. The first european car is always at 6th / 7th place, behinds all the Toyotas, Mazdas etc. Go where the heart is.
if for some reason, you are able to get into a 355, i would definitely say go for that instead. something tells me that you would regret making it a daily driver though.
"We" as in whom? "Best" as in what class? As I said earlier: "An opinion expressed." The quoted post implies a very biased and not factual statement. The best is what you have your heart set on and deep down knowing its faults therein. Every car has its merits and its weak points. Its matter of what you willing to live with and your acceptance level. Exotic car owners are very passionate beings and tend to skew towards what they own whether it is European, Japanese, etc. I own a 1991 NSX and know what it is and what it isn't. I did not "settle" or compromise on my decision knowing what other exotics are out there. It was what I see in the car that led me to my decision. As far as choosing between a 348 and an NSX, well take all the facts between the two and then weigh what your heart says and then make an informed choice. Disregard all the emotional post here and look at the realities of owning each car. The 348 is a Ferrari and that is a fact. The NSX is a Honda and that too is a fact. A badge does not denote whether it is a quality car or not. What are are the facts that speak for themselves. Reliability the NSX is a better buy. If this "fact" is not a major concern, then the Ferrari is a better choice in the exotic nature department. There are too many "facts" to list between the two to list here and only you can list your personal preferences. Suggestion: Make a side by side list of the pros and cons of each and then you MUST drive each one before your decision. This is after all large capitol expenditure and you owe it to yourself to drive before you buy. Many Corvette, (no flames please) wannabees drive the NSX after having their heart set on a Corvette and wind up buying the NSX. I am saving up to buy an F-360 spyder and only after I have driven one and looked hard at all the facts concerning the car and having driven it, will I pull the trigger. http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODYzMTM3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTQxMDY2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg Image Unavailable, Please Login
The one thing that keep's coming back on this thread is: "I will be driving this car every day" To me, that completely ends this discussion. While I admire all "F" cars, I would never put myself in a position to be nickel and dime'd as well as the inconvenience / frustration involved trying to make a 15 yr old 348 a daily driver. That said, do what you want. Am sure there's a mech. and towing co. out there that will thank you. On another note, I read here its a "Honda" like that's a bad thing. That's really funny to me as that's one of the main reasons I bought (Tino's /BBOXER's NSX) Because it was a Honda! A few months back I was in a position to buy another "fun" weekend car. Sold my 65 BB vette for just under 6 figures and had cash burning a hole in my pocket. Could have had several cars but decided on a car I had always wanted, but put on the back burner - the NSX coupe (91-94). (for several reasons,alum body, coupe rigidity, manual steering, as well as it not being quite as mechanically complicated as the newer T models) Was pleasantly shocked to find mint examples selling in the 30's down from the windows stickers orig. 75k. Was also surprised how rare this car actually is. (under 10,000 NSX's imported from 91-05) (512 in 94) (In South Orange County I see more "F" cars than NSX's) So, from a collectors stand point it is a curious question what a 348 will bring down the road V.S. an NSX considering today's prices. But that's not the reason I went with the NSX. Its driving the car that did it for me. Nothing came close considering what I had to work with, and the good news is I only needed a small portion of it! As a long time car enthusiast, I will continue to enjoy the Concorso Italiano as well as other events and appreciate all quality cars and enjoy talking to their owners. Do not confuse car guys, with car snobs. The car guy can actually talk in detail about car's. Many cars, and be just as comfortable at Pebble Beach as the local cruise night parking lot. As a side note, I appreciate "F" cars. There beauty is 2nd to none. But I drive an old 94, 3.0, 6 cylinder NSX and am having a blast! And am keeping an eye out for a 2nd one! Am having that much fun! Flame suit ON, ready for action! LOL LOL
The one thing that keep's coming back on this thread is: "I will be driving this car every day" To me, that completely ends this discussion. While I admire all "F" cars, I would never put myself in a position to be nickel and dime'd as well as the inconvenience / frustration involved trying to make a 15 yr old 348 a daily driver. That said, do what you want. Am sure there's a mech. and towing co. out there that will thank you. On another note, I read here its a "Honda" like that's a bad thing. That's really funny to me as that's one of the main reasons I bought (Tino's /BBOXER's NSX) Because it was a Honda! A few months back I was in a position to buy another "fun" weekend car. Sold my 65 BB vette for just under 6 figures and had cash burning a hole in my pocket. Could have had several cars but decided on a car I had always wanted, but put on the back burner - the NSX coupe (91-94). (for several reasons,alum body, coupe rigidity, manual steering, as well as it not being quite as mechanically complicated as the newer T models) Was pleasantly shocked to find mint examples selling in the 30's down from the windows stickers orig. 75k. Was also surprised how rare this car actually is. (under 10,000 NSX's imported from 91-05) (512 in 94) (In South Orange County I see more "F" cars than NSX's) So, from a collectors stand point it is a curious question what a 348 will bring down the road V.S. an NSX considering today's prices. But that's not the reason I went with the NSX. Its driving the car that did it for me. Nothing came close considering what I had to work with, and the good news is I only needed a small portion of it! As a long time car enthusiast, I will continue to enjoy the Concorso Italiano as well as other events and appreciate all quality cars and enjoy talking to their owners. Do not confuse car guys, with car snobs. The car guy can actually talk in detail about car's. Many cars, and be just as comfortable at Pebble Beach as the local cruise night parking lot. As a side note, I appreciate "F" cars. There beauty is 2nd to none. But I drive an older, 3.0, 6 cylinder NSX and am having a blast! And am keeping an eye out for a 2nd one! Am having that much fun! Flame suit ON, ready for action! LOL LOL
An NSX is a Honda. As someone who loves cars (but hasn't owned a Ferrari - yet), I can tell you that my first impression when I see an NSX is "cautious suburban software company worker who figured out what car to buy using an Excel spreadsheet." The recently discontinued model is timid looking. Not to be too psychoanalytic about this, but the reason for the original post may have something do with rationalizing the NSX as the "less scary" substitute. A Ferrari is a Ferrari. And I'm saying this as a Porsche owner... Frankly, a Porsche 993TT is more impressive than an NSX.
ok, well, a choice was just thrown at me, a friend has an offer on the table for a 93 nsx, black on black. 50k miles, garaged, hardly driven. Itll cost me less than half the price of 348's that I usually see.
and another thing. There is a lot of talk about the nsx being a "safer" route because of its refined character and maybe also its reliability factor. What I am wondering is that would you guys be saying the same thing if I could afford a gallardo? After all, it is becoming very well known for its reliability and refinement. Does a car need to have qualities like lack of driveability to be considered any better than another? I obviously would expect some bias towards ferrari's on this forum, but I also would have expected much more posts with detailed information and not just "buy it because its cool" factors. Just a thought.
Reading all you posts on his thread I don't really think you are ready for Ferrari ownership so I think you would be better off with the NSX. Although I think the NSX is a good capable car,but as I and many others have said it's is not a Ferrari. To me all the NSX owners are wannabe Ferrari owners but are frightened by the running costs so they have taken what they see as an easy option and bought a Ferrari substitute,the NSX.
Why don't we all just leave it at this... The NSX and the 348 are completely different cars. You really need to test drive each one and make the choice for yourself. Good Luck!
The 348 is the ugly red headed step child of the Ferrari line. Looks like a kit car and any decent ricer will spank you. Get the NSX.
Specs you can look up yourself...Most of us are trying to express to you what Ferrari ownership means to us...and it's not about specs...If it was, we would all be driving WRX's with NOS...and spanking the crap out of every vehicle on the street for less then a 348 would cost. It depends on what you want.... Me personally, I like the attention....I love the mystique that the car creates for me...I like the exclusiveness, the rarity... I see more NSX's then Ferrari's in this town, but I'm sure many wealthier towns have more Ferrari's then NSX's... NSX's are great cars...Great cars! I came very close to pulling the trigger on one..and if I were you, I would get the NSX...perfect match of exotic appeal and everyday practicality... For me, I didn't care about everyday practicality, I have other vehicles that serve that purpose. I would rather have a 348....I would rather have a 348 then a 355 or a 360. Get the NSX, its not a life long commitment...If you realize that you 'settled' or would rather have the 348...then sell it and get a Ferrari.
I know this may sting a little, but most NSX owners can easily afford Ferrari's. Some do. Many don't, because they don't "wanna" be a Ferrari owner. You keep thinking you're special cause of that badge?
