Dino 246 engine rebuild

I have been wanting to know this for a while now, how much would it cost to restore a Dino 246 engine? Let's say on average which can be a rough estimation.

 

Awful lot of variables here.

Do you want or need new pistons? Does it need valves, seats, guides, carbs? On and on and on.

I did a fairly complete rebuild of my Dino engine about two years ago. It cost about $16K at Algar to get it done, maybe a little more. There was also some other work done at the time, breinging the total vill to about $20K.

If I had it to do again, I probably would have had the gear box worked on while it was out. We're doing that now, in conjunction with a bare metal repaint.

DM

 

I think there are a couple of new cars being manufactured with sodium exhaust valves other than the new corvette. I think you run into a problem with the sodium valves if your car isn't running properly, something like an excessively hot, and lean condition combined with an over rev.

Dave the Coker Dino ad was in Dupont Registry's Classic edition, it's page 2 of the mag.

 

Dino's suffer from two unrelated types of valve problem.

The first as discussed is the sodium thing. In my experience it is cars that have sat around unused for years that suffer the worst. My theory is that when the sodium is cool, it is in a powder state which is highly corrosive, and once warmed it turns to liquid which is less corrosive... hence cars that get used often last longer. (I once had a recently re-fired restored 365BB drop a valve at idle during a carb tune)

The second Dino valve problem is the collet ring. Original valves have a shallow single groove with a large radius.. this promotes collet shuffle at high rpm and can eventually wear to the point that the valve simply slips through its collet.

I think the Superformance Valves all have a double collet ring for this reason (been a long time since I bought any though)

A third Dino valve train problem is where the valves hammer their way back into the seat, and you end up with shims so thin that the camshaft lobe actually hits the bucket edge before the shim.... This also means that the fitted length of the spring is too great and the effective seat pressure is too small...promoting valve float.

 

Let's just say yes to all your questions then what would the bill be?
I have been wanting to own a Dino for a while now but scared to make this commitment due to the fact that I live in Thailand and do not really know any good macahnics who can work on vintage classic Ferraris. But I would like to learn more of it.
What if one can be found with recent engine restored and recent refurbishment then would an average machanic be able to handle the routine maintenace or repairs, you think?

 

Parts, from Superformance, would be about $6000 USD to replace all the pistons, valves, guides, seats, seals, etc,etc. You can go on their website and look over the parts prices. I would guess that Ferrari UK would be about 25-30% more. That's motor only, no gearbox parts.

Gearbox, clutch, etc. About $4000 in parts, you'd have to source them from two or three different places.

Now, all you need to do is put them all in. Maybe some of the mechanics here can help out on estimates, but from my car that would have to be about another $10,000 in labor all in. It's a little hard to tell from my receipt as we did a lot of stuff. But, I don't really know how many hours to R&R the motor/drivetrain then do all the work. 100 hours? Dunno. Some stuff had to be fabricated, some things had to be sent out, it adds up.

I also can't comment on regular maintenance being done by your everyday mechanic. I fix a lot of little stuff, but I don't know if my local Volkswagen mechanic is qualified to shim valves, tune webers, etc. And if he was, there would still be a fairly steep learning curve for a type of car he's never worked on before, wouldn't there?

DM

 

Any enthusiatic mechanic with respect for the marque can be a Ferrari mechanic.

You just need to know when to stop and ask the right questions, and what to ask.

I'd encourage all isolated owners to get their mechanics to visit a site like this and ask. It's why I follow most of these threads.

A good mechanic is a good mechanic. Carbs are carbs. The only real difference between a good mechanic and a good Ferrari mechanic, is his ability to admit when he doesn't know something (and who/where to ask), and his efficiency with regards to chargable time.

 

I guess my point was you don't want to have to pay for the learning curve.

Either in dollars spent to have a two hour job take six while he figures it out, or, in an error that pushes a valve down into the piston, or some other nasty result.

DM

 

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
right...ok....ummmmmmm
oh to hell with it....
NO COMMENT

I'd have said "I guess good Ferrari mechanics are the ones that don't admit not knowing something?" That would have to make FF the best in the world, and i'm sure he'd agree!

 

Crikey mate!
Is that a valve or a .50 cliber bullet that impacted a tank?
It is completely deformed!

 

If I can do it, anyone can take apart their own dino engine and wash it and drop it off at the machine shop with the new parts for measuring. You machining bill should be similar to mine in san francisco, $1500 (more if something is wrong with your crank). Then you need someone qualified to reassemble the engine. A friend did mine, while I watched/helped, and we did it over two days of beer drinking and goofying off in his home garage. I drove the engine home in the trunk of my wife's wagon and put it back in (about 8 hours of labor on that) and drove the car 15,000 miles before selling it.

So personally, I would not want to pay 100 hours worth of labor for something like a dino engine rebuild unless they are going to do every single thing (i.e. i drop off the car with a blown engine and pick it up in perfectly tuned running condition: even for that I think 100 hours is too much). It's a pretty small, simple engine. Having watched once, I wouldn't hesitate to do it all by myself the next time around. It's no more difficult than a little Fiat engine, really. Keep the Dino engine manual handy, follow all the steps they list, be careful, and then it's just nuts and bolts...

 

That's what I am doing. I have done Dino Fiat motors before and feel comfortable tearing them down. Like you said, use the workshop manual, take photos and notes.

My previous 206 block and heads, which included a liner replacement cost me 1700.00 in machine labor. I sold that Dino Fiat and my Giulietta Veloce Spider in January to buy the Dino 246GT in March.

For my latest 246 motor, my block is back from the shop and installed on the sump with tranny/differential. I am waiting on my heads to return from the local machine shop with new everything. I found that the soft alloy plugs in the heads are like sacrificial anodes when it comes to coolant induced corrosion. My Dino had been sitting for years with the coolant in it. I am replacing all coolant tubes, replaced the thermostat housing, and all alloy plugs in the heads. Several of the alloy plugs had already eaten through the center to cause coolant leaks. The heads themselves and block where spared the onslaught. I had my freeze plugs in the block replaced with metric brass ones vice the plated steel offered by Ferrari. They will last forever as brass.

I also got my waterpump back rebuilt, alternator rebuilt, and CV joints on the way.

Richard
Dino 246GT #03510

 

I concur the Dino engine rebuild is fairly simple and need not cost anywhere near $15-20K. Some people simply don't have the time or inclination to attack such a project. That's why we have shops and mechanics.

 

Thanks it does give me some benchmark.

 

I hope I am only several weeks away. I intend to make my Dino a driver. I only work on my Dino on the weekends. I have the heads and block back from the local machine shop. Putting steel seats in the heads required a special order from a valve seat manufacturer ($12.00 each). Each seat was then machined to fit in the valve seat pocket. It turns out some of the valve seat pockets were off centered from the valve guide centerline and required additional hours to fit and offset. It is a work of art. I also had all the alloy plugs replaced in the heads. They are the sacrificial anodes for corrosion in the heads.
I supplied them with the bearings, rings, alloy plugs, timing chain bearings, waterpump rebuild kit, SS valves, valve guides, viton stem seals, all seals and O rings. They flushed and cleaned all oil / coolant galleries.
All total, it cost me $3000.00 for the machine work.

One of the heads is on and cam timing set with chain tensioned. The workshop manual provides excellent detail. I also rebuilt my distributor. I had to drill out the rivets and I chose to install stainless hardware. Purchased new bearings from Grand Touring in Phoenix. Waterpump also rebuilt. I had to replace the engine compartment coolant tubes due to corrosion from sitting so long. Thanks to Superperformance. Their stainless steel piping is excellent. They only have the piping for non-A/C cars. I had a heck of a time putting in the 1 1/4 Gates green stripe coolant hose with wire in the rubber. I had to put in by myself. It was a challenge, but should last for years. I opted to use silicone jacketed heater hose (22 feet). I had the muffler repair welded at a local hot rod exhaust shop and then painted with high temp paint.
I can't wait to get on the road!

Sorry for all the photos.

Richard
Dino 246GT #03510
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Richard,

you should have called ! I was in Pismo yesterday shopping with my wife since today was her Bday, I would have happily come over and helped with the coolant hoses. I could not have come today without getting in trouble but yesterday would have been no problem as long as I left her with the credit card

Mike

 

Mike,
I ended up doing the coolant hoses several weeks ago. This weekend, I installed the one head with the exception of torquing the cam sprocket bolts, replaced the crossover fuel hoses, cleaned up the valve covers, cleaned up the oil filter / pressure regulator assembly, prepared the block for the other head, trimmed the coolant hoses for the coolant tubes, and installed the right side gas tank. Not too bad for one weekend and going to soccer games for the kids, attending a charity dinner / auction and going to church.

I am waiting on cam sprocket safety washers from Superformance. Mike Elliot has been very helpful.

If all goes well, I look forward to a motor install in two weeks or less. When I know when it is going to happen, I will give you a call. It only took two of us 1.5 hours to remove the motor. Sequencing the front header install with the motor install takes some coordination.

Regards,
Richard
"leave her with the credit card!"

 

Well thanks to Mike Rambour and his wife Laurie the Dino Motor is installed in 1.5 hours. I wouldn't have been able to do it without them. Now comes the fun part of attaching all the disconnected items.

I hope to have on the road by Monday evening.

Wish me luck

Richard
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I am out of the country now so I cant go look at my car, but ın your photos ıt looks like you have removed the panel between the engıne and trunk.

I didnt know ıt was removable.

 

Unsnap carpeting and remove screws. Aluminum bulkhead comes right out. Lets humans remove motor. See repair manual.

John

 

Get it on a carrier to Rifledriver!

 

Some one has obviously modified your Dino for ease of engine removal. My 72 246 has the top cross piece welded in and the insulated alum. bulkhead is rivited in place so it will have to be modified to make it perform like yours. We did figure out it is much easier to remove all the rear housing and flywheel assembly before pulling the motor. It all came straight out. Great looking Dino, and good luck.

 

Gary,
The Dino 246 workshop manual is pretty clear about removing the engine to trunk partition. It is supposed to to be removed for ease of engine removal. It does make it very easy to remove the engine. It takes about an hour, with all cables / hoses disconnected, to remove the engine.

Richard

 

Richard, I am confused as my workshop manual states to remove the partition only. Right now it is clear as mud. Your car is a 74 and mine is a 72. it is likely that Ferrari changed later cars without any notice, go figure. At any rate we have had our engine out twice without removing the partition, it sure would have been easier if it came out like yours. Have fun and looking forward to seeing both our completions.

Gary

 

Gary - mine is a December 1971 build - rear bulk head between trunk and engine bay is totally removed during engine rebuild. Cross bar that the expansion tank sits on also comes out. This is the only way to remove the engine and maintain your sanity. With bulk head out, rear headers, starter motor, etc., are easily accessible.

All three of my Dinos of 1971 build dates are constructed in such a way that the engine/trunk bulk head / heat shield is easily removed. The rivets do not have to be drilled out - the engine side aluminum and trunk side fiber glass together sandwich the lower trunk lip.

Jim S.