Has the Enzo or the F50 or the F40 ever been on Nordschleife

I'm going to stay out of the fight, but I do want to say that anyone who hasn't driven the Nordschleife really should make the effort to do so.

At 22km and 170+ corners, lap time is as much about the driver as it is the car. I mean, really, last time I was there I smoked a Scooby WRX whatever in my rented Ford Focus Estate, in the damp, with my wife on board! And I'm just a mediocre driver, but in all the laps I've done there I only seem to get overtaken by the odd sport bike, and even they are too slow through the Karussell. I once actually had to pop up out of the banking and go around a biker on the flat because he just wouldn't get more than horizontal.

Cliff notes version: don't put too much stock in Nordschleife times. The car is not the biggest part of the equation there. A lot of difference between sensible (me,) brave, and really knowing the place from thousands of laps.

Last word, if you do drive it, do NOT try to set a fast time. They keep body bags on the premises for those people.

 

I've been the past few years about 25 times to the Nurburgring Nordschleife. It's about 280 km's from my house. We always went with our motorcycles.
Last year I sold my Suzuki GSXR1000.

The first time I came there (3-2002) I got beaten several times on the track by an antique Mini Cooper Van with a roll bar in it. Can you imagine ?
I have 15 years bike experience and I rubbed all the tires..
But that guy with 60 (??) hp beated my 170 hp Gixxer at that moment...

Of course he knew the track and I didn't.
Just to give an idea.. that place is evil, heh heh... (me behind the F512)
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it's too bumpy??? WTF, is that the excuse?......the "Ferrari has nothing to prove to anyone." excuse sounded better than that!!! I love Fcars as much as most of the guys who frequent this board, they are works of art.....but come on people, the guys who test these cars are not rookie drivers who can't handle a couple of bumps...... you can't walk around saying you make the best cars on the planet if you're not willing to test them in the same place where all the other "non-works of art" manufacturers test their cars.......hell, they have enough money, right?....why not put Michael Schumacher in an F40, F50 or Enzo, let him loose on the Ring and see what happens............even if they don't turn out the fastest times, i doubt it would affect Ferrari's reputation or their place in motorsports history............just my $0.02....

 

Why would Ferrari want to do this? I mean, What would they have to gain?? Test a 20 year old car? A 15 year old car? Or even a car they haven't made for 2 years??? It's history. The cars are sold. All the F430's are sold for the next couple of years...... Sure, If they come out with a new model that they can't sell, (like that would happen) sure, go out and show the world how fast you are.

I run a restaurant that has been open for 25 years. People ask me why we don't give coupons or advertise. What for?? I don't need to waste the $$$

Do they really need to go out and do this to their cars??
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Gian Marco, not sure what school you went to but 7:46 vs 7:56 is 10 seconds a lap!!!

What does Ferrari have to prove?
Well how about the fact that they are/were consecutive world F1 Champions...and they are using that to sell cars.
Don't you think their road cars should perfrom as well?

There is no fight here guys. It's fact that prior to the 355, Ferrari's would be emabrassed by the lowly 911 at customer track days. Plain and simple.

Look, I love the GTO and the F40, but to me if someone is going to go on about how great their product is at the track, then for pride's sake, build a car that can compete with the rest of them.


The Ring too bumpy???!! WTF is that? The Enzo at the Ring will be waayy scary?...Dude, supercars, faster than the Enzo run at the Ring.
So you are obvidouly admitting what we are saying.
I can't wait to hear the other excuses.

 

YES!

http://www.ringmini.de/

Dilligaf

 

Few thoughts here :

I guess the ring is in general ****. It becomes THE big thing to measure performance, like EURO NCAP becomes a sale argument for Fiat and Renaults, while we all know we'd prefer to sit in an MB car for a high speed crash (BTW, and to avoid any long BS, they not only invented, but also patented the car "safety cell" back in the 50s, made the first car with anything from ABS to ESP via Airbags). You can't say a Porsche is a better performer than a F-Car because it laps faster the ring. As many guys said, it's all a matter of driver/track knowledge. On south france B-roads, i saw a guy with a 993 having troubles keeping up with locals in a 1.0 Ltr Peugeot 106....
I just think that if you want to know what is the better car for YOU you take them all out on the ring, and decide.
If you want to decide who's the best driver, you take one car, and everyone beats the hell out of it.
Lastly, road cars are crap for tracking, all of them. Take any VW golf, put some slicks on it and remove anything that is not "required" (sound proofing, seats lights etc etc), and you could get damn close to 8 mins a lap with a good driver.
Tires do so much...

 

"Lastly, road cars are crap for tracking, all of them."

So true. Every enthusiast should have the experience - just once - of trying to make a street car into a track car.

 

Hi guys,

I think this Enzo went round the Nordschleife (see pics).
Look at the licenseplates on the Enzo, Italian factory-plates.
Pictures were taken by somebody else than me, I don't know when ...

Greetz,

Eddy
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One that offered reading comprehension, perhaps you'd like to register?

I think you had a point until you started editorializing about the owners. Compared to Porsche, and also now Corvette, Ferrari's race cars are far more removed from their street offerings than some of their competitors. This is gradually changing, as we see Ferrari is testing an F430-GT early on, instead of waiting around for a dealer to dream it up first, as was the case with the 360-GT.

The benefits Schumacher's F1 success are more in technology and theory than Porsche's hands-on experience with 911s in GT2 and GT3 classes of endurance racing, and the developments Corvette designed into the C6 based on lessons learned from the C5-R. (I'll leave the fact that the 911 gets softer and more GT with each update out of the discussion)

I'm sure Ferraris would hold their own quite well at the Ring, but it is true that they have far more to loose than they have to gain by putting a number on it, so why bother? The wait lists and repeat customers are all they need, you can't do better.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on why the Z06 is so close to the Carrera GT's lap time? For six times the price, you are aren't even getting twice the performance. Would your response have anything to do with exotic/exclusive/heritage/mystique/sound/feel/styling? If so, you'd start sounding like a Ferrari defender....

============
Dubai Vol, your comments about the Nordschief remind me of a comment on the Top Gear episode where Clarkson tried to break 10 min in the diesle Jaguar. He asked one of the motorcycle riding regulars how long it takes to learn. The guy replied that it would take about 100 laps to figure out which way it goes, and then you'd spend the rest of your life learning it.

 

Hi Koby,


I'd say Kudos to GM. They've obviously done their home work.

7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Roehrl,(Autobild 07/04)
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg(estimated), Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), >>>

But it's still 14 seconds down from the GT. I don't call 14 seconds close.

 

do they have certain times when its only bikes on the track or do they just let everyone mingle?

 

Everybody mingle, all the time... that's why it is so dangerous.
It might be a closed track but the normal road rules count.

I remember one time hitting above 200km/h passing a full bus with about 60 oldies in it ! Yeah, haha, this place is amazing.

Everybody can go, as long as your exhaust doesn't fail the noise regulation test.

During the week the track is "closed" and rented to all the known car manufacturers in the world. Remember all the spy shots of new cars always taken there.

 

I think you may be right. A friend of mine bought a 360 Spider for his wife a few years ago despite having been Ferrari's arch enemy on the track for years. When I asked about it, he replied that it was all about style more than performance. He said that a GT3 was vastly superior and faster on track in expert hands but just didn't have the looks and presence of the Ferrari. Interestingly enough this gentleman is often found driving Porsches on his spare time despite having access to any Mercedes he wants, the SLR included. Out of the limelight, even his SUV is a Cayenne. However, that Sunday morning breakfast run from Santa Monica to Oxnard was designed around a Ferrari. And I'm sure there are similar runs on the french Riviera as well.

 

Disclaimer: I'm going on my memory; I wasn't THAT old in 93 when it happened!

What occurred was that the navigator miscalculated where the upcoming checkpoint was. As luck would have it, it wasn't visible from a distance away, so they only saw it once they were pretty much on top of it. So they come sweeping in at one million miles per hour, see the checkpoint at the very last second, and slam the brakes and turn in. Unfortunately, they hit the marbles/gravel and slid into (I think) two or three officials and their cars. I think that 3 or 4 people were killed. All because they didn't want to incur a time penalty by overshooting the checkpoint.

There's a very eerie photo of the marshalls on their feet trying to get out of the way as they see an out of control F40 approaching them at warp speed. Scary ****! I remember a big write-up in Wheels magazine which published that particular photo. Haunting is one way to describe it.

I also remember hearing that other competitors were complaining that the two Japanese dentists were not up to the task of driving the F40 flat out; they were doing crazy speeds the whole time until their luck ran out.

 

I don't know why Ferrari doesn't take cars to the Ring, or even whether Ferrari takes cars to the Ring but, as for me, I'm more interested in cruising in Yorkville, or spotting cars on the week end. I went to the track once, but quit after my first session when I found out I couldn't make my 360 spider go as fast as some guy in a GT3. Now, I leave my Ferrari in the garage and confine my racing to the cafes.

Forza!

 

I wonder if Takuma Sato is also a dentist?

 

nice!...the truth will set you free my friend!!

 

Henkie, by the way this mini van had a 1.6 v-tec honda tuned at nearly 200 Hp in it....and the guy who drove this car was every day on the ring...

LOOK AT THIS http://www.ringmini.de/index.html

2 weeks ago i went to the ring with my 348...i saw an F430 on the track...

my 348 and two M3 CSL

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1796/hamoirnrburgring023test17hf.jpg

 

Thats very true. In the short term they have very little to gain, and alot to lose by testing on the ring. Moreover, it would be as stupid a move for them to test in the competitions back yard as it would be for people to test in Ferraris.

However, reputations don't last for ever. I wish they would use their clout to establish testing on a more independant track. F1 is great. But I for one would really like to see them pit their road cars against the competition in a more open way.

BTW, I dont buy the wait list BS. I assume your reffering to the 430. Does having 4000 names in a book, without deposits and any firm commitment = sold out?

It was "sold out" in Europe/UK. But you can get it at list now , and its starting to turn up at close to list in the UK aswell now. And what abt their other cars. The 575, 612, 575 replacement. None of those are/will be sold out.

 

A Zo6 at 14 seconds behind a CGT is quite impressive in my opinion considering that the CGT costs 5-6 times as much. If GM put another 100k into the Z06 I'm sure they can erase the gap.

Who gives a crap about lap times unless you're a professional racer? Nothing beats ferrari ownership experience.

 

Nevermind GM putting another $100k into it, an owner can turn around and put $10-15k in it, and go neck and neck with ANYTHING. How about a supercharger and some R compound tires?

 

Well, that explains a lot heh heh...
I guess for the whole world this is the most spectacular track in the world.
I have so many pics, every weekend there are so many car lovers. I've been riding against M5's / Countach's / Murcielagos / all the Ferraris, you name it.
And all that for Euro 12,00 a lap ;-)