QP faster than a M5

I agree 100% that the exhaust note and leather/ wood in the QP's interior is better than that in the e39 M5; I can't comment on how it compares to the new e60 M5...but, I bet that new V10 sounds great. However, both the e39 and e60 M5s are true sports sedans that will walk away from a QP on the road, at the drag track or road course. I can't wait to run up on one with a driver wanting to play...if/when that happens, I will report back.

 

i've only really heard it from the inside, and due to the... well, sadly superb aural isolation you have from ANYTHING when travelling in one, the engine even at 5000rpm (only heard it to a leeeetle bit higher during run-in ) can barely be heard.

i guess that's what you want in a car like that though...

 

i'm embarrassed to say that i have no clue what any of those items cost in the US. although, the entry level gov't job look comparable.

 

The QP shouldnt be aimed at the M5, the fact that its being compared is a compliment to the car and its abilities, the M5 is in a smaller class of car with the A6 and EClass as modified supersaloons, the Qp category is more th JagXJ 7series etc....in that class it excells as the best drivers cars.

 

If that is its intended market, I agree because the QP is no comparison to an M5 as far as performance is concerned...not even close IMHO.

 

Wait, let me scoff in your absurd face once more after you said even in a drag race power means nothing. Yeah, what about traction and wheel spin? BMWs certainly have no more problem with wheel spin and traction than any other marque out there. Face it, you obviously know nothing about care. This will be my final comment...I can't help keep thinking about that "arguing on the internet is like the special olympics" graphic...

 

bimmers are great cars, they are loved by many for a reason, nothing can take that away from them, i guess its hard when a new kid on the block comes and shuffles a few feathers.......

 

keep the thread alive! keep the thread alive!

(the M5 is probably the greatest sedan ever built, albeit, certainly not the prettiest. . .)

keep the thread alive!

 

i think the m5 is great, but i think the QP is the greatest sedan, its fresh, gorgeous and independent, it wasnt conceived with bmw in mind, it went its own way, and its italian...........

so though the m5 is the best supersaloon, the QP is the best saloon.IMO

 

It certainly holds the title for ugliest car in that category, high end sedans. It's even worse in the flesh. It does NOT look like it's worth the money. Driving it is a completely different matter.

I can't imagine how the QP could beat it but I guess we'll have to just wait for a couple of you guys to bring a pair of them to the track and do some serious driving. Car versus car with the same driver.

Volunteers?

 

I can't imagine why anyone would care about marginal performance differences of either of these cars on a race track. To me, both are too big, too heavy and carry too much unnecessary mass to drive at the limit; it's almost like arguing whether the Elise or a Miata makes for the best long distance tourer.
At least here in the States, the vast majority of these high-end sedans are driven by 'masters of the universe' as daily drivers. In the daily push to Manhattan, I am surrounded every morning by countless AMG'd Mercedes and the arguable straight line performance figures these things can deliver are entirely beside the point in bumper to bumper traffic. Comfort, deft handling, maneuverability and reliability would seem to be rational concerns, apart from status, bragging rights and quality of materials/fit-finish.
I appreciate that the 'uber-sedan' is a special niche- a car that can fulfill the more mundane role of luxury sedan, and still be a rip to drive, and deliver suprising, spine-tingling performance, to boot. On that score, both of these cars probably deliver.
The Maser's big weak point, at least here in the States, is- i think- a terrible reputation for reliability and lack of support. Despite all the fanfare of a 'new' Maserati, the fact that the company has been reshuffled within the FIAT heirarchy does not give much comfort. This is a legacy, here in the States, that some of the other cars mentioned, share. FIAT had a spotty dealer network, uneven distribution and service and the cars- at least the ones I remember from the early 70's, put the aftermarket rustproofing services on the map. Other cars, like the Peugeot, while perhaps more deserving, suffered a similar fate here.
BMW has achieved a real foothold in the US market- it has the middle class snob appeal of a Mercedes and is generally well regarded by the non-car afficianado types. The M cars, like their AMG counterparts, are in some ways supposed to be sleepers; it may look like the average production model, but only those in the know appreciate that it is something special. Problem is, around here, and in LA, and a few other car-centric places where these suckers will sell strongly, the market is extremely 'badge' conscious. (To wit, all the commuters schlepping in their AMG'd cars every day into Manhattan). The Maserati here is still truly an exotic, oddball. Its future is not clear.
I'm glad it's on the market, since I honestly find most of the German sedans pretty dull and ubiquitous. I can't wait until the new Porsche sedan comes out- that will really give you guys something to rail about.
Oh, yeah, and for disclosure purposes, I'm currently driving an M3 Cabrio w/SMG as my daily.

 

While at FoA on Saturday I looked again at the QP. It is one gorgeous car. But, I would like to know what type of maintenace issues owners have had that are using it as a daily driver...say, 20k miles a year or so? Any QP owners want to chime in on that?

 

Parkerfe, I've got 24K on 05 QP. A month ago I wrote an "Annual Report" for the Maserati Board. Feel free to contact me on this board or by email if you want specific info:

Reprint is below:

I’m coming up on the one year anniversary of picking up my Quattroporte. At 22,000 miles this car is probably among the highest mileage cars in the States.. So I thought I’d report in and let you all know what my experience to date has been.

Too many choices to make and no/few cars in the U.S. to look at back when I was ready to order so my wife and I went to the factory in Modena to do research, then ordered the car from there. We had it delivered through Ron Tonkin Gran Turismo in Portland, Oregon and it was their first QP delivery. Visiting the factory was a fine experience and really sharpened trim and option choices that I’ve appreciated over this year. It’s got the sport package, Pirelli tires, sunroof and the fancy seat package. Trim and color is just about like the Neiman Marcus package, just by coincidence though, as the NM package and program had not been announced at that time.

The car is my daily driver mixed with a lot road trips around the Western United States. It lives at our summer home in Sandpoint Idaho from June thru November, then migrates to our place in Palm Springs for the winter. I do a lot of sport driving with it; up in mountains, in the desert and places where I can push it hard. All but about 200 miles have been in Manual and Sport modes. I can’t feel much, if any, ride difference with Sport mode and it’s very hard to tolerate the slower shifting of the non-sport mode.

I thought the car was subtle enough looking to not cause a public fuss, but I was wrong about that. This car gets huge attention

Reliablity and Care

Here’s a surprise. I’m still on the original clutch and it seems to be working fine. Ironically, I had the dealer reprogram the clutch operation to make it more aggressive (and smoother starts), which they warned would decrease clutch life.

I’ve had one thing (and only one!) break and that was the CD player. The dealer just replaced the whole unit, gave me a nice loaner car for the day and had it back to me in the afternoon (Orange County M/F). So that was painless. Otherwise the car has been perfectly reliable.

Tires and wheels have cost some money though. Replaced the rears at about 7K miles and they are due again. Hit a hole in the road and put a bubble in a front and had that replaced. Didn’t realize at the time that I also bent the rim and knocked it out of alignment enough to quickly screw up the front tires and I replaced those. I had the wheels chromed, which looks just right on this car, and so replacing the bent rim was going to be a hassle. Took it to a place that has one of those sophisticated Hunter 9700 balancers and vibration control systems and they were able to balance the thing out so the bent rim isn’t noticeable, up to 155 mph at least, so I can avoid that hassle for now.

I have averaged 14.3 mpg over the last 3000 miles. Have seen as low as 11 over forays into the desert with serious disregard for the posted speed limits and sometimes, it felt, disregard for the laws of physics as well.

The things that really suck (and there are some)

This car, in all its magnificence, has perhaps the worst Navigation system I have ever seen. This is my eighth car with Navigation and this one is far and away the poorest one. Don’t get me started!

The seats are great but the seat massager and whatever this “adjusts to your body feature” are worthless. They just don’t do anything worthwhile.

Even if this is a driver’s car it is still a good road tripper, but needs a second cup holder and better use of interior space.

The center console that heats and cools beverages and whatever must be something dreamed up by the marketing department. I have this feature on another car (Mini Cooper S) and it’s useless there too. I think the term is GIPE (Good Idea, Poor Execution). And in the QP it ends up using up a lot of space that would be nice to have for something functional.

The heating and cooling system is erratic. This seems to be a common complaint that they haven’t figured out how to fix yet. The heating and cooling in the seats works well though.

Subjective View (the part that really matters)

I love this car. I have had a lot of nice ones in my life but this one is special, very special. Every car I’ve had takes some time to learn and thereafter grows or declines in appeal. The thing about this car is its “specialness” just keeps growing. I like it better today than I did yesterday and feeling quite bullish about tomorrow. Of course, you can drive it on day one. A month later you think you are pretty in tune with the gear box, power band and driving characteristics. But a couple months after that you realize you weren’t haven’t even been close to “getting it.” There is rhythm to the car that takes a while to emerge. Then you become part of the rhythm and it is very satisfying and extremely seductive. I’ve succeed in the past at having a supercar of some type that I drove for certain purposes and then had a daily driver. Can’t do that now. The QP is just too compelling to not drive at every opportunity, except winter weather.

One of the most appealing parts is how the car turns-in. It reminds me of when I bought a pair of parabolic skis to replace a lifetime on traditional skis. It’s like they had a personality of their own that just loved to initiate a turn, find the perfect line and then link seamlessly to the next turn. And the skis seemed to do this so effortlessly that I think I’ve heard them giggle right after. They seemed to sense the turn coming and find, on their own, the most graceful line. The QP does that. The weight distribution of the car makes turn-in just a magical experience. Part of the rhythm is learning how to accentuate that by not overdriving the car. Its about learning to put more confidence in the car’s sense of what’s right than ever before. I imagine a lot of people test drive the QP, stumble thru in Auto mode and decide against the car. If you could have them drive it for three months I predict it would take the Jaws of Life to get them out of there.

The power band is amazingly consistent. The car just pulls and pulls. It is at its best above 80 mph. The pull from 80 to 150 or so is exhilarating. I think a potential buyer would be much better off thinking of this car as a Ferrari with luxury coach work than a luxury car with performance.

The wife’s view: My wife loves cars and she LOVES this car; but only if she is in the driver’s seat. She does not think it is among the top road trip cars.

Summary: This is a special car offering one of the most compelling driving experiences I’ve ever had. A big, smooth car with a suspension and weight distribution that makes it drive like a tight sports car. Just so good. And it grows on you like a favorite piece of music.

Hope this is useful.

Ken

 

It makes the steering wheel feel like the front tires are darting all over the road (as if driving on a poorly paved surface). As a result, I felt it was necessary to make counter-inputs to the steering which were in reality unecessary. Unbeknownst to me, the steering was actually fine and required no additional inputs even though the steering wheel was producing feedback which had me convinced (as a daily sportscar driver) that the car needed input to remain on course. What resulted was slight vehicle instability -- but caused by my reactions to something that wasn't actually happening, not by the car itself.

Bear in mind I'm not talking about the car sliding all over the highway or being hard to drive, it was just something that was slightly unnerving at first, and which I eventually tuned out entirely.

 

How did this even enter this discussion? LOL!

Off topic flag, please!

Rolls, Bentley, and Jaguar have been doing it for 50+ years. The Quattroporte might be more beautiful but its a one hit wonder. In other words, until Maserati start doing it consistantly, they are still second best.

Sunny

 

I'm in it for the car, not for the manufacturers ability to keep doing it. I'm only looking for one hit each time I come up to the car buying plate.

 

To each their own. Maserati has managed to replicate or exceed the kind of warm interior being assembled for generations. I wouldn't go as far as someone did to say its better than what the British can do. The thing that makes Ferrari so great makes British interiors so great and world reknown.

The only thing you're expected to do is buy what you like the most.

There's so much more to a good handling car than the amount of driving aids it takes to make it go fast, or faster than other cars in its segment. Its as ridiculous as Porsche competing in a HP war when its about finesse.

Putting personal tastes and the bickering that it has brought out from some aside, there's very little actual comparison being done in this thread. What a shame.

Sunny

 

that was quoted from and M5board, so dont quote me on that one, but having sat in both XJ and QP, i definately preferred the Mazer. And the mazer invented the luxury speed saloon with its MK1 Qp in the sixties.......i know u love british cars, me too, but this time the QP owns the Jag

 

Yep Maser did it and in style with a detuned F1 engine in the 1st 4p. Now that is amazing . Commuting with a detuned F1 engine...

 

Certainly nothing negative meant toward Jag. I've owed several fine ones and seriously considered another before committing to the adventurous path of Maserati.

I agree about continual "debate based on personal taste" on all these boards. There can be no winner just people defending their personal favorites. But, that is what we humans do.

 

Ken, great write up, makes me want to go test drive one at the next opportunity. John

 

just spotted the new M5, black on red, looks like a serious machine in every aspect but its pretty ugly, the old one was a classic.

 

I really think the British do wood and leather best.

Still when it comes to Maserati and their history of "leather and wood" there is no denying they were right in the mix with the QP1.

Infact when it first came out, the first Quattroporte cost more than a new Rolls Royce at the time.

 

their fit and finish is superior, in most cases. The area the QP excels over them is design,its not too old skool and classical but modern enough.

 

I agree with you that the QP is better than the current models but I wouldn't say its better than either a Rolls or Bentley but simply better than a car close to its price segment.

My avatar was a Maserati trident and my profile picture was me sitting in the Quattroporte drivers seat at the LA Auto Show. My love for the QP is no secret! I don't like the center console. Everything else I do.

I know nothing was meant negative towards Jaguar. I bash them plenty on my own and only step in when someone doesn't have their facts straight.

For the record, Ferrari used to use Connolly leather interior, same as Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, and Jaguar. Its not the highest grade Connolly and the problem people experience is because a) lack of use, b) lack of conditioning, and c) premature wear of the surface dyes and not the leather underneath or a combo of all three.

Splitting is a problem with the leather. Cracking is a problem with the dyes and lack of use/conditioning.

My passenger seat looks pristine but its harder to the touch compared to my drivers seat which has seen 130k miles. My driver's seat is wrinkled as can be but its soft as a feather.

Sunny