ENZO CRASH THREAD @@@@@ ENZO CRASH THREAD @@@@@ ENZO CRASH THREAD @@@@@

There have been three Ferrari accident pics (2 here and 1 in a Chicago incident) posted this week showing 2x355's and 1xEnzo breaking in two in high-speed accidents.

Is this:

1) coincidence (increased sampling will show significant variance in failure modes)
2) by design (car designed to break behind the firewall and shed the engine, but structure designed to keep cabin as whole as possible, within limitations of energy dissipation)
3) design flaw (car breaks in half somewhere in the cabin and exposes driver/passengers to secondary impacts)

 

Giago if you want to email them to me I wouldn't mind seeing them. No i'm not that f-ed up, but being of an engineering mind it's interesting to see how the cars come apart.

[email protected]

btw it's awfly petty to bicker about the car when someone lost their life here. And yes it's WAY too common for F-cars to come apart/burst into flames during a crash, I've seen that 1st hand and it's harsh.

 

One can't really compare the failure modes of two vehicles that differ so dramatically in the materials and design of such vehicles.

And one can't really point to a design flaw from looking at photographs...any conclusions drawn from doing so would be completely anecdotal without knowing all the details of the crash.

Ferrari's are high-performance vehicles, and are frequently driven in the way they were designed, and most often in a setting that wasn't designed for them...frequently by people who aren't up to the task of driving in such a manner.

What we can see is that my previous paragraph describes the circumstances surrounding each of these crashes, and that passenger compartment seperation is coincidental in all of the cases.

Travel fast enough, and hit something hard enough, and something will break. And cars aren't very well suited to standing up to a good t-boning.

Here's a pic of a 360 sans most of itself.

http://hockeynews-online.com/newspaper/images/photos/others/28-heatley-snyder-crash_39_105.jpg

 

Your answer is essentially #1.

Your picture shows another firewall separation incident (for the most or least part), now for a 360.

I'm not trying to suggest anything from these pictures; but there are still the 3 possibilities and perhaps someone knows more than can be analyzed from pictures. If it is an intentional design behavior (#2) then it would explain why 355, 360 & Enzo might do this in more accidents than not. If it is unintentional design flaw (#3) it still might arise due to a biased way of thinking about structures within the Ferrari design group, even though different materials are used in all 3 cars.

I also accept that intentionally designed crush/break behaviors that are intended to save the passenger compartment at 65MPH would not save anything at 165MPH. But still looking for any evidence of an intentional or unintentional design bias.

 

Unibody Ferraris starting with the 348 just don't have the structural integrity of the older tube frame cars, their is little to hold them together so they seem to disintegrate in higher speed crashes, bad for the occupants.

 

It can't be #2, because each vehicle lost its firewall in each crash, unless it is #2 coupled with #3.

I initially thought what you are thinking, that there's a flaw inherent within Ferrari that produces defective and unsafe engineering, but I am in the camp that these guys were going way too fast for the surroundings and their skill, and the cars got bisected by something rather immoveable in the place that is the most vulnerable on every vehicle.

 

I'm more concerned with the propensity of Ferraris to catch on fire than I am with them flying apart at high speeds.

I'm surprised each car doesn't come with a set of Nomex and a bag of marshmallows.

 

How many other car mfrs offer fire extinguishers as standard or option? But the driver has to be conscious or alive to use it.

 

Sorry for the crude illustration, but I suspect the trajectory of the car vaguely resembles what I've drawn.

The car was coming around the corner (right-hand corner) from the left of the photo towards the viewer, and the rear either stepped out to the left, or he ran off the road on the left.

Then the car either simply veered to the right off the road to the point of impact, or he tried to correct the oversteer, but overcorrected to the same effect, or one of the above as a result of going off the left-hand side of the road.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

What i don't get is that on some picture, there is a tire in the front.
It definitly doesn't look like an Enzo tire ! Seems more M+S 15" than Z rated 19"....
Again, could be the camera angle.
For the cars being cut at high speed, my guess is that it's more related to the type of accident than to the car structure itself.
As most of these accidents occur at high speed and involve a loss of control, it means the car will be hit at the side at some time.
Now, since these cars are usually built around the passenger cell, with carry frames for the front/back, it is normal that those tend to detach, instead of bending like it does for a more common car.

 

RIP

 

I'm relieved, because at least noone asked for details about the VIN.
But beware, I'm sure 'THEY' are out there.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Don't say that too quickly. Should come.

 

Just saw this thread. Any death is sad, but people's reactions here are understandable. Humans are drawn to scenes of injury and violent death. Just think about every road incident, mild or horrible, that you've ever seen. Traffic slows, not just because of conditions, but because people gawk and want to see, if only for a moment (to then turn away in horror), the results of this kind of thing. I am not sure why- maybe it is a 'there but for the grace of God' or a macabre thrill that revitalizes one's own life (remember the Cronenberg film, 'Crash,' that dealt with people actually addicted to this).
Crash testing, and safety is, I think, done largely for travel and impact at legal limits and below- perhaps someone better informed about safety standards could chime in, but i do not think any of these cars are really designed to prevent massive injury or death at extremely high speeds.
It does serve as a reminder that there are consequences to driving at speed.

 

I'm not an expert in this field, but here is the general overview.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/

You'll notice that most of the crash standards are written around a 30 mph impact.

I know that the EU standards are higher, but I'm not familiar with them.

What most people do not realize is that once you go over about 50 mph, the loads on impact start to get very high.

The cars are capable of much higher speeds, but the standards basically only cover low speed accidents.

 

Indeed, the problem is very simple, if your car has an accident AT (no braking etc, that's real collision speed) let's say 50 mph against an underformable "something", then :
Either (as per todays' standart), the car is fully destroyed and you are destroyed inside.
Either the cell much more solid, and you will most likely die because of internal injuries (liver, etc "explode").

So there's no safe way out of a high speed accident. No car maker can change that, and no human being can change it.

 

I just received a disturbing photo of an Enzo that has been torn in half. The person who submitted the photo did not provide much information and wishes to remain anonymous.

He said that the driver was killed and that this took place in Italy. I have no other information and so I was wondering if any of you knew when and how this accident occurred.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81352

 

Thanks - I did a search through the forums but obviously I didn't do a good job.

 

Could you please repost those pictures. They doesn't working anymore

 

Thats a very depressing scene But with speed comes consequences. My condolences go to the family and may the driver RIP.

 

Our prayers go out to the families and the souls of those involved. Our prayers are also extended to those who find the time to make a mockery of this horrendous crash.

To discuss mechanical issues about perhaps the ultimate car ever built, is one thing, but to make comments about the driver etc...is totally distasteful.

 

Nice comment there !!

Bad taste