How do I lower my 430?
Buy the right setup from Hamann. The 430 is way too soft. If you lower it it will still be too soft and possibly handle worse than it already does. Karl
You car has factory coil overs. You will need a spanner wrench for the job. After you lower it you should get the alignment redone, as the camber will be off. Do a search of the archives on "lowering".
That's basically what I was asking. Wondering if the 430 had the same ability to lower as the 360 with just a wrench. Thank you. And, by the way, the car handles amazingly and is NOT too soft. LOL. Yikes.
You are absolutely crazy to lower a 430. By doing so you interfering with the underbody aerodynamics which are critical to maintaining downforce at high speed. Just ask anyone who has cornered at high speed and driven over an undulation in a 360 or 430. Ferrari spend millions of dollars developing the aero on these cars and people think they can make them better? Well, you should do a few laps before and after lowering and post your times to see what's faster. Of course, you may not have to, maybe you can put it in your own wind tunnel and develop it yourself like Ferrari do. Regards, Carl.
carl the 430 does look like a 4wd when first purchased . the CS was way lower . mine got lowered today so i'll post some pics . off to the track friday for some lap times before i swap or modify the suspension package. i now by lowering won't improve handling but i want to look good on the track note photo was taken with stock set up giddy up Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, all I hope is that anyone that lowers one of these things tests it in a wind tunnel first. At the very least, get a professional driver to do some laps before and after lowering. Has anyone done thins and compared times? If not, then WTF did you do it in the first place? I would be VERY interested in the results. There is way too much internet based mods based on conjecture and just plain bull**** IMO. Regards, Carl.
LOL. You are incorrectly assuming I race my car or track it or give a F*** about a split second difference. I do none of the above. However, I do USUALLY agree with you in respect to 'mods'. I believe most cars are best as made by the factory. I would be lowering my car for 100% asthetic reasons only. I would never notice the difference in performance in a million years the way I use my car. I will possibly see poorer tire wear I assume.
Lets remember that as soon as more than 1 car is produced to more than 1 customer, the factory propably has to do some compromises. To adjust the given settings to a personally preferably level, may that be asthetichal or spliseconds, is not a crime. Regarding lowering/ windtunnel / under body aerodynamics and spliteconds, lets also not forget that a normal road is very seldom as flat as a windtunnel or Fiorano. In my oppinnion feeling comfortable with a car and enjoying it with a big smile are the important matters. I hear a voice saying, to each and his own.....
Carl's comments have me wondering a bit...I had decided to lower my 430, but I do track the car and don't want to mess up the aero balance. It's interesting that all the 430s are a bit tall, not just U.S. I thought it was perhaps in response to whiners who got tired of having to be careful negotiating driveways to avoid scraping, or maybe U.S. bumper height laws, but if all the cars are that way I'm inclined to believe Ferrari wants the car at that ride height. My mechanic theorized the extra 1/2" or so of ride height was to allow for compression under the increased downforce of the 430 vs the 360. In the end I decided to wait and investigate before lowering. By the way, it's a bit trickier than other coil-overs in that you can't just put a spanner to the threaded adjuster, there is too much stiction for that...the whole spring/shock unit has to come out and the spring compressed to allow for adjustment. My mech quoted a full day to do a lower and align. Gary
What a bunch of nancy boys.... Reducing the ride height will only help in the cornering ability of your car. Why? It reduces the roll center and center of gravity. As said above you'll need to have your alignment redone once you've lowered it. Also, if you're not using scales you need to make sure you've lowered the perch on each of the four corners equally. Adding or subtracting the amount of rake on the car is going to affect the weight bias and the handling. If you lower the front more your jacking more weight to the front. Your also adding to the aero downforce to the front. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/diffuser.htm As you lower the car the more downforce it'll be producing over all. Now race cars are very sensitive to adjustment in ride-height and can be very sensitive to aero changes due to pitch and roll. Road cars should not be and I'm willing to bet the farm your 430 isn't either. Why? Because as has been said above Ferrari have spent big chunks of cash in the wind tunnel to make sure it isn't. If lowering a car makes a car unstable at high speed then why does the new breed of cars like the Jag XJR lower themselves once they get to high speed? BECAUSE IT PRODUCES DOWNFORCE! The trick to producing downforce is getting the car as close to the floor as possible. You want the air flowing over the car to be going slower than the air under it. This is why the 430 has big diffusers built into it. So why did Ferrari make the ride-height so high? Because they'll be selling the car to a wide number of people and need to make compromises to be able to do so. Here in LA where I live you can't get a car too low or too stiff because you'd wind up bottoming out getting into parking lots or just driving down the road. But, if you live in an area with nice smooth roads you should be fine. Also if Ferrari were SOOOO afraid of anyone lowering the car WHY DID THEY PUT COILOVERS ON THE DARNED THING! They're basically telling you to have at it. Now go to it!
Agreed, the fender gap looks like a suv fender gap. I say lower it if you do not take it to the track.
Dito, why is the challenge car so low....That's how all should look in my opinion, and why can't they put automatic ride height adjustments on like the new Lamborghini. You should have seen them drive across the grass fields at Hilton Head Island Concours. It was hilarious, like 4x4s, but very effective.
Hi Charles, That is simply not correct. To lower the ride height does not guarantee greater downforce. In fact, you may simply succeed in keeping the downforce the same, and just shift the pressure centre which is extremely dangerous. The downforce may even be less. I defer to anyone that can show me data from a wind tunnel. To make blanket claims like this just proves contempt for the fundamental laws of physics until you've tried it yourself. Lowering a car if done properly requires you to also raise the mounting points of the steering rack to preserve the angularity of the tie rod ends. If you don't, the car will pick up bump steer, in other words, when the front wheels hit a bump, they will turn. Secondly, when a car is lowered without moving the suspension pick up points, the camber cahnge on compession and rebound is distorted. 360's and 430's are notorious for large toe changes on compression and rebound too, thanks to the toe link on the rear. Also, don't campare the 360/430 ride height with the 360 Challenge Stradale, that car has lower ride height, and different underbody aero to compensate. As I said before, I want to see some track times before and after lowering. So far, no one has been able to provide any data to support the idea that lowering will make the car faster. Regards, Carl.
Hi Carl, maybe we should be deferring to basic common sense/ logic (rather than necessarily needing wind tunnel data, as, I doubt too many fchatters here have their own wind tunnel to prove/disprove you)? Specifically, if lowering the car reduces the flow underneath the car - logically, this is typically the result when lowering proportionally f/r - then pressure is reduced under the car and this does, in fact, result in greater downforce overall. Of course, it goes without saying that the lowering has to be done well and in a balanced manner. If you doubt this to be the case, I suggest you consult any one of the commonly accepted and recognized text books on active vehicle suspension dynamics and aerodynamics for easy confirmation. I do believe Charles is generally correct on this point regarding aerodynamics. Regarding speed overall, it is self evident that, all other things being equal, a car with a lower cg will perform better. In case you doubt this phenomenon, you can check the text books (see above), or, just simply view a formula one race and note that these cars do not look like Monster Trucks. And, by the way, I believe it is commonly understood that lowering does affect camber/caster and toe so therefore adjustments need to be made to maintain the relational elements (spacing the rack, adjusting camber/caster/toe, etc.)
Hi Cliff, Yes. I'm not saying that what Charles said was wrong in theory, but that really, we don't know what the result would be unless you test it and have some hard data to back it up. I have a laymans command of car aero but I'm guessing that in order to take advantage of the lower ride height, you'd need to use a pretty agressive front splitter like the GT cars do. I'm not saying that's correct but I just can't see how it would work and better than stock without it. I don't feel that being "Generally Correct" about aerodynamic fundamentals is sufficient justification for making changes to a cars aero package without testing it! Of course lowering makes changes to the alignment settings. However to preserve the angularity of the wishbones and steering rack for the bump steer issues and camber and toe on compression and rebound, you need to modify the pick up points for the suspension. Cars like the F40 have adjustable pick up points for example, a 360 or 430 does not. An alignment alone will not change the issues I raised in my previous post, irrespective of the alignment settings, same with the steering rack. I'm really hanging out to see some lap times with a before and after lowering episode, anyone? Regards, Carl.
Carl, you're kind of right, but MASSIVELY exaggerating. Lowering a car for track is GOOD. As senna21 pointed out it affects the roll centre (which is actually bad because it lowers it to below ground levels on a 360, but the aero gain is greater than the mechanical loss), but lowering the centre of gravity makes big advantages... even just 15mm lower is noticable by most reasonable drivers. The aero floors require two surfaces to work.. one being the ground , the other the car... closer to the ground = greater air speed under the car = lower pressure under the car = more downforce. The problem here is that with std srpings, the car rolls around making the ground an unstable variable... so now we have more downforce on smooth ground BUT it can suddenly disappear if we slide or ride kerbs or go over rough ground... this is where a wing helps... because it has two stable surfaces that produce downforce no matter what happens to body roll. Bump steer can be a useful thing if engineered correctly, or at worst case, it can be compensated for with adjustments. The N-GT 360's have some simple mods to reduce bump steer and raise the roll centre up a little.... still a road car.. but better. The worse thing about lowering a 430 (from observation only so far) is that it has a poorly designed excessively low and long front overhang.... so you're going to hit the ground a lot.
One other data point (in the absence of scientifically controlled before and after specific track data here) is simple recognition of the universally accepted practice of manufacturers to slightly lower their "sport" or "performance" model/upgrade. For example, the challenge stradale was about an inch lower than stock, Porsche "S" models are lower, etc. These mods are not done for window dressing - they are highly engineered changes executed by the world's smartest vehicle dynamicists to specifically improve performance (often at the expense of ride quality and street usability). Some things just are self evident based on common sense - kinda like while I don't know exactly how to design a car tire, I know it will work better if it's round and inflated than rectangular and deflated.
ok, given all this great technical info....... Anyone know how much this would cost and who would do it here in South FL? Asthetics only, F all the tech stuff. Also, I hear something about skid plates..... where can I get these to protect the underside of the front bumper? Thx again guys.
