Boxer clutch question | FerrariChat

Boxer clutch question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jrg1, Nov 19, 2005.

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  1. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    Hi everybody........'83 Boxer.......car has sat for the last week, unheated garage, temps in the 40's, left it in gear, and I drive it tonight and the "play" in the clutch pedal has increased an incredible amount since I drove it last week........I would say there is light resistance, and no engagement, until I get to maybe the last couple of inches of pedal travel, .....the clutch still engages/disengages fully and is not slipping......does this sound like an adjustment issue or something else? If it is an adjustment, could a "regular" mechanic perform the work or is this something for a specialist? Thanks for your help,as always......John
     
  2. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    i just tried it again, and the pressure seems to be getting worse and worse......can't get it in gear now......maybe i have sprung a leak and have no clutch fluid left (hydraulic)??????
     
  3. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Start by bleeding the brakes and clutch line. Make sure there is no air in the system.
     
  4. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    do the brakes and clutch run off the same lines?
     
  5. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Yes, to bleed it you need to bleed from the master out, and there is a bleeder valve on the top of the clutch housing, which you bleed last. You could try bleeding that first to see if there is air in the line, but I would do a proper bleed of the entire system. LF, RF, LR, RR then clutch.
     
  6. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    thanks, could you describe fo me the locations of the valves? and i'm assuming its open the first, then close it, and then move aound to each valve?
     
  7. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    The brake and hydraulic clutch are separate systems.

    Check the fluid level for the clutch in the front hood drivers side a small reservoir. If its considerably low you have a leak somewhere probably the flexible hose the goes to the slave on the motor. You could have a bad master or slave cylinder as well, the slave is on the motor, it has a bleeder nipple on top you may try as well.

    Have a helper push in the clutch and watch the arm that goes to the trans for movement, sounds like you have a bad hose, slave or master.
     
  8. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    So am i correct in saying that if the resevoir is low or empty, i could then fill it (tell me with what, please), check operation of the clutch, and if it then operated normally for a period of time, i could then simply look for a leak???? thanks the help so far......m
     
  9. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    If its low or empty enough to cause your problem you probably have a leak and will at minimum need to bleed the clutch at the slave, and yes just fill it with a quality brake fluid.
     
  10. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    So i just want to confirm.........brake fluid for both the CLUTCH and brakes, right?
     
  11. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426

    yes, a quality brake fluid, DOT 3 don't use silicone DOT5 it will damage the seals.

    All the fluid specs are in the owners manual, if you don't have one register at the Ferrari owners site and download one for free.
     
  12. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    Thanks very much
     
  13. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    If you still have problems after bleeding (and I suspect you will) then either the clutch slave and or master cylinder seals have gone. Try replacing/repairing slave first . Or maybe the connecting hose/pipe is gone or has a loose connection?
    Ron
     
  14. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    361
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    jmn
    These symptoms are essentially identical to the ones I saw when my slave cylinder failed on my '81 Boxer. Rebuild kits are readily available and it is easy to do. The retaining circlip can be tough to remove without just the right tool, as I recall, but the rebuild is easy, just a quick hone and new seals.
     
  15. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    well i just checked the resevoir and it is bone dry..........so my next step (ccorrect me if i am wrong) is to go buy some brake fluid, remove the rubber cap on the clutch housing valve, and start filling.....listening for air at the valve? the owner's manual mentions min/max lines on the resevoir but there is no way to see them given the way the resevoir is secured.........
     
  16. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Fill the clutch reservoir then have a helper pump the clutch or rig something to hold the clutch pedal to the floor after pumping it then crack the bleeder nipple on the slave on the motor, keep doing it till you get a firm pedal and no more air comes out, catch the fluid with a rag as its under pressure and will shoot everywhere and if it gets on your paint it will destroy it
     
  17. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    well i put fluid in it, released the bleed screw, fluid began to flow out of the valve, i replaced the screw, started it, pumped the clutch a few times, and lo and behold i could feel the pressure starting to build....it now operates normally....so i guess i'm lookingg for a leak.........thanks to everyone
     
  18. arium

    arium Karting

    Jun 16, 2005
    126
    Port Coquitlam, B.C.
    Full Name:
    Steve H
    Please, please promise not to apply that same logic if your brakes should fail to engage next time around.

    If the reservoir for any hydraulic system in your car is empty it is either leaking or so incredibly out of adjustment that you have exhausted the available fluid supply. I do not believe that pumping up your clutch pedal will cause it to self bleed. By rapidly cycling the pedal you are just compressing the air trapped in the lines so as to make the slave cylinder function. Temporarily.

    While this may be effective for your clutch situation please don't attempt this if you experience a similar situation with your braking system. I can almost assure you that you will be sourcing a new front clip if you attempt that.

    Best to you,

    Steve
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,689
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    The best gadget in the universe for bleeding the brakes or clutch is a Motive pressure bleeder. You put fluid in it and connect it to the top of the reservoir, then pump it up to 15 psi with a hand pump on the top. Now you just open the bleed screw and let the pressure do the work. This is especially useful with brakes, where you can damage the master cylinder seal by pumping the pedal too far down. For $50 it is the best investment ever for doing brakes or hydraulic clutches.

    Birdman
     
  20. jrg1

    jrg1 Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    60
    nyc
    Full Name:
    john
    Steve, whlie I appreciate your concern, I never mentioned any problem with my brakes, and while I asked if the clutch and the brakes ran off the same lines, I certainly never drove the car until I had the answer. I'm certainly capable of recognizing my own limited knowlege base, and were it ever a question of safety (my own or the public's), or a repair that would affect the ability of the car to stop, rather than go, I would definately defer to an expert.
     
  21. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    You have the leak due to the cold temps. As we all know metal and rubber contracts when it gets cold. As this has happened the fluid is making it's way around the seals. I'd say your slave cylinder just needs a quick rebuild. Fresh seals will do the trick.

    I've had this problem on a few cars with old clutch slave seals. They’d work fine when it was 70+ degrees out then we’d get a cold front (this was in Dallas) and the next day the temp would be 40+ and the clutch wouldn’t be working as well. New slave seals always did the trick.
     

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