It's probly a 128 oz BIG gulp. Wheel, fender, door, interior panel? Suspension, drivetrain/axle, frame damage? Did you hit a tree?
Not really any better views. Hard to tell. See this link: http://www.adesaimpact.com/external/?content=dynamic/featured_vehicles/display.jsp?stock=APJ31&popup=true
Jim, If this is a so called "rebuildable wreck" I would stay away from it unless you are able to do the work yourself. Most of these cars are sold for way too much money. People get their hopes up and sink a small pile of money into buying these wrecked exotics without realizing that the damage is almost always worse than it appears to the untrained eye, the replacement parts from Ferrari are VERY expensive and anyone qualified to do the work isn't going to want to work for nothing. By the time you're done you will almost certainly have spent a much bigger pile of money.....enough, or more, to have bought a nice, unscathed, drivable car of the same model and vintage. Be carefull. Wil
Wil, I appreciate your advice, but I am looking for a 'hobby car.' Something to do besides polishing wheels on the weekends. Haha.
The fact that it's in this dealers's hands should be your #1 indication --- the rebuild cost was more than an insurance company wanted to deal with. My guess? $20K+ One ounce of frame damage, and it's well beyond the capabilities of a hobbiest unless you've got some amazing equipment in your backyard. Just a guess...
If the aluminum frame is damaged then easily $30K and up to repair. And you do need special jig to work on the frame. Since you can not safely bend back aluminum frame, you'll have to cut out the bad sections and weld in replacements. Often engine has to come out. If you can see the car in person look for creases in the body panel and any misaligned gaps between panels which are tell tale signs of bent frame. I have seen a Spider with what at first appeared to be minor rear end damage, but later turned out to require frame repair which cost the owner about $35K. Be careful as others have said.
I get a kick out of how the Dealer (oops made it capital), like I said dealer didnt take a picture of probably the most impt part of the issue; the right side. From the get-go he is trying to pull a fast one. Get you down there, potentially interested, then work you. The dealer is......well......... much like a politician in this case. Nuff ' said. Move on.
Jim, If you're looking for a project then list in your mind what your applicable skills are and what equipment you have available to you and then decide what you can tackle as a spare time project. One project that requires a lot of painstaking work that can be tackled by an owner with good hands, likely with some professional help, is a paint job. You can disassemble the car, sand it, perform minor repairs and mask it. At that point you are probably better off letting a proffessional check your work and spray paint your car in a booth but with the owner doing most of the grunt work the spraying can be done at an affordable price. Afterwards you can wet sand and buff the car and reassemble it. While all this has been going on you can be cleaning, polishing, repairing, refinishing parts. You can take parts to subcontractors for media blasting, polishing, plating, anodizing, upholstery etc. There are some very good books and videos available to instruct you on restoration techniques and I would practice on a motorcycle or tractor before tackling a Ferrari but with practice and some help you as the grunt/contractor can gain a lot of satisfaction and some beautiful results. I would stay away from any major collision damage though. You will be in over your head in a hurry. Wil
A good friend of mine has already restored a wrecked 550 a couple years ago. It hit another car hard and the entire front end was crushed, the engine pushed back into the cabin, etc. Car had to be disassembled to the frame, frame put on jig and repaired, body panels acquired and painted, many misc parts had to be acquired and so forth. All the resources are available locally...in Indy. They build race cars here guys, and they do it right. I don't plan to do any of the major stuff, just tear it down and chase down people to do the work, etc. He bought his wreck for $75K and ended up spending another $75K on it, and ended up with a really nice car that was awesome for a very reasonable price and enjoyed the work. We would drive the crap out of it without fear. I want a track car, and don't want to worry about messing up a pristine car, so this is a viable and practical approach, esp since I like to 'tinker' like we are discussing and will learn how to do most of the mechanical assembly along the way. Maybe its not what you want to spend your time doing, but for me, its an interesting challenge that takes my mind off the pressures of daily living. Thanks for all the well meaning warnings though... This car is in the hands of a wholesaler which acquired it from State Farm and it will be bid on by dealers and restorers. I don't care if its a salvage title. I am not interested in resale value. As I said, to me, it's a hobby and something to play with on the track. It will also be a novelty at car shows. Maybe I will even pick up a sponsor or two along the way and put a few stickers on it. Why not? As for the car, it doesn't look like an operation that is trying to sell on line, just seeking prebidders to set up the auction. Its a N.J. car in S. Florida, and I am sure the owner wasn't about to drive a repaired car, just worked out a deal with insurance company to dump it and buy a new toy. That is what I am looking for, exactly. Enough said on that, but I am curious what the worst case scenario would be. I am thinking frame damage is likely, transaxle damage is possible, some body work (it looks like a hit just in front of the wheel and that the wheel turned some after impact, maybe a curb). I imagine this is a fairly common type of impact and someone has had the misfortune or fortune (if you're a restorer) to repair a similar wrecked vehicle. Jim
Your friend paid 75K for a wrecked 550 and spent another 75K on it? That's a bad, bad deal, especially if it has a salvage title. With crash history, the car may be worth 100K now, less if salvage. Then there is the matter of his labor which in this case is worth less than nothing. Dave
FWIW - a 360 spider isn't the ideal track car because many road courses will disallow a spider in high-speed run groups. Although it has an integrated roll system, I don't believe it is SCCA sanctioned.
As I said, this was a few years ago...do you know what a 550 cost 4 years ago? As for labor, it was a labor of love. He enjoyed every minute of it. In fact, he used to be on the Ferrari LeMans team as a wrench. He could build a TR from scratch, and would always enjoy doing it. I suppose some people just don't look at their lives like a balance sheet, and most don't make their money buying or selling cars. Do you know anyone in a hot rod club? I do, these guys spend untallied hours on their cars, painting, finishing, not for the money, but the joy of it. You aren't lookin at it thru those kind of eyes. There is a satisfaction to be gained by doing something which you deem worthwhile, even if 'society' doesn't. Ok, off the soapbox.
Yea, that's an issue to consider. I usually hear that then see some guy out there with a Cobra or an open cockpit prototype or something with a fixed roll bar, so they must make allowance for that. I am not thinking of competing anyway...if they don't want me to run and take my money, ok. I am also not set on a Spyder, I just found that one looking for rebuildable 360's. Its on the market and timing is everything!
If it's driven by hobby value and not economics, then you'd have to be the judge of course. A couple of points. First, I do know that just because a car is written off by an insurance company doesn't mean it's an absolute certainty that the repair costs + salvage value will exceed the payoff value of the car. Sometimes the insurance company writes a car off when they *possible* repair cost puts it above their threshold. Finalizing the repair costs may require starting work and creating sunk costs which only increases the insurance co's "out-of-pocket" if they later decide to write the car off. So it's up to the insurance adjustor to make a judgement call. In the mean time, there's a good chance the client is calling and bugging them that he doesn't want the car anymore on a car of this class. So it's certainly possible that the car is better than expected. But the people who have the inside line on that are the insured and insurance adjustor, everyone else is guessing unless they do their own physical inspection. Second, beware of "winner's curse" in an auction situation. This scenario arises when a number of bidders go after a property whose value (in this case repair cost) is uncertain. If most of these people are knowledgable, then their estimates are likely to cluster around the actual repair cost, some above and some below. The one who wins is the one who has the most optimistic assessment of repairs and their own costs. It's been show that in these kinds of situations, the auction winner often loses in terms of the final outcome because of this effect (this economic study actually arose in relation to oil drilling rights auctions). So set a conservative bid limit and don't chase it.
There is a big difference hobby wise between building a hot rod and resurrecting a modern wreck. 4 years ago, you could buy 550's for 150K in great condition. From a hobby perspective, I would rather sink 75K into a hot rod project or modding up something to make it unique. For someone who likes painting, finishing, etc, there are many opportunities to restore cars and come out financially as well. Dave
I'm with you on this Boxer12. Maybe a bit starry eyed but, depending on your inclination and skills, I could definitely see the attraction of re-building this car. You have to be slightly crazy to have a Ferrari anyway. I would say that there is no point in discussing the probable costs based on half a picture. What you need is an expert down there willing to have a look at it. No expert F-chatters down there guys??
Some people value their time more than their money. They write checks easier than they do leg work, for instance. If that's you, then this car isn't for you. If not, then I'd suggest spending some of your time (to prove to yourself that you aren't the above sort of guy) following this particular car to the winning bidder. Spend your time watching what happens to this one car. From then on, you'll know what level of projects are for you, based upon your personality type, skillset, and financial means. If you can't or won't do that for one vehicle, then you're the type who writes checks easier than doing leg work.
You hit the nail on the head..........I would not touch it with a 10' pole because of the very way you point out. d
If you like to do that type of work I would consider it. It would be a great bonding experience. The damage does not look too bad: Qtr panel and wheel for sure. They probably cut it open to inspect the internals for damage. It would be worth a visit to really check it out to make sure the top retracts, the wheel spins true and the doors close. I used to work in a body shop and it definitely looks repairable. Some of these cars get totaled because the new OEM parts are not readily available. The insurance Co has an obligation to fix a car in a reasonable period of time. I'm sure there are even some good used parts available that could be spliced on. We used to splice quarter panels on old Chevys all the time. Some people will say you will be upside down in it, but you can get really upside down in a undamaged car too. I agree with the labor of love concept --sitting on the couch watching TV does not pay-off to well either nor does a big screen TV!! If the price was below what you could get it my vote would be to go for it. Mark
Agree. If you like doing it then the money is somewhat of a side factor. The key to doing something like this "within reason" $ wise is doing a lot of the work yourself or knowing/having access to freinds or people who can help you and wont charge you up the a$$. Could you rebuild this car for less than you can buy a simlar one in perfect shape?? Yes, for how much less... 10%-20% maybe, but it wont be 50% less. Make sure you are ok with any lingering title issues that may follow the car and if it's projects you like and time you have, then go for it. Good luck & post progress if you go for it.
