Whats up with the milage ?

I have always bought Porsches over the years , a new car every few years and really love to drive them . I put 15,000 + miles a year on them taking many long road trips and just driving the car when ever I get the chance . I do not understand why Ferrari drivers seem to be so concerned about putting miles on their cars . It is like many of them are so afraid of loosing money on the cars when they sell them that they really miss out on enjoying the cars .

Also as I look for a good deal on a new 430 I keep seeing new cars with 200 to a 1000 miles on them , seems if you were going to flip a car you would not want to have any miles on it . Are there that many people who are buying them putting a few hundred miles on them and then saying I do not like it and selling them after a few hundred miles .

 

No, the new car presold orders are SOLD OUT....so it's 'flipping' you see.....

Here's a joke told to me on my first Fcar purchase:

Willhoit:"Hey, you know why all used Ferraris are 'low mileage'?????

Newbie: "No, why???"

Willhoit: "Because they never RUN long enough to get to be HIGH mileage....BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!"

And then he took my life's savings................HTH.

 

Nope, there's a bunch of people who drive them a few hundred miles and say "I'd like to make 20 grand". Good return in the $/mile ratio.

Welcome to the Ferrari world. Lots of things won't make sense for a bit (or ever).

 

Sounds to me like the 'typical' new Ferrari owners/dealer scam. The new owner gets the car, has some fun, but not too much fun, with it. Flips it back to the dealer so they can sell the car above MSRP and split (or whatever) the profits.

Ferrari 360's can be had for about $100k or so. If i were you i'd get a 360 and drive it... often. Track it too

For the price they are asking for a 430 you could get a pair of Ferrari 360 cars, but for 200+ i'd get a 360 (if you HAD to have a Ferrari), a Nobel (for the track), a Lotus (for track/fun/whatever), and pocket the change

Getting a 430 now is a waste of money. Image the guys who shelled out $200k for a 360 years ago... and now have a $100k car. But hey, if you are immensely wealthy, have fun and get a 430.

 

I am starting to think that the cars are not really flipped by real buyers ... It is like the dealers are taking half of their cars and working all this out with so called buyers in advance .... just greed in partners with the flippers and helping orchestrate a premeditated flip .

It would seem in a perfect world those who buy and flip would not be sold anymore cars but it seems to be the opposite . The dealer are encouraging the buy and flip thing and will only black ball a customer from buying if they flip on their own without cutting they dealer in . It is such an Italian kind of thing , never quite upfront and a little shady .

 

Dont believe a single response you got. They are all way off. Simply put, drive your Ferrari as much as you want. The 430 is a great deal even if you pay 240k+. YOU will understand what I mean as soon as you drive it. Enjoy and have fun. AND< do NOT get a 360, the 430 is so much further advanced, you have to get it. ANd, also, you can not get a 360 for 100k unless its a 99 with 100k miles and no seats.

 

Some of the cars are sold to the dealer’s buddies with the full intent of them driving the car for a bit and then selling it back. The rest of your assumption is pretty correct too.

 

A great deal at $240k? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Let us look at the responses... you seem to be VERY MUCH a minority. We live is a real world, and yes you can get 360 for around $100k or so.

But hey, if i had $240K (are they really r@ping people THAT much for them?!?!) i would get MANY cars over a mere 430. A nice 360 for $125k (to make you happy about price) and a new Vette (don;t laught, they are on the heels of Ferrari performance for ?$70k?) or a Nobel ($85k TOTALLY decked out and track ready) and you still have plenty of change.

$240k for a 430??? You gotta be kidding me!

i hear the new Lambo are very nice. Four wheel drive too! Made by Audi per se, the guys who have pretty much won the 24 hour races for years until they changed the rules to nix out Audi. How has Ferrari been doing at the 24 hour races? Hmm... i see the Corvette has been winning in their class quite nicely.

 

Agreed! I don't see how paying $240k for a car that will only be worth 140k 3 years later is a 'good' deal. Maybe I am missing something, lol.

But, before this gets outta control.........
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You should check out the Corvette forums if you want to see the really crazy ****. So many of those guys bolt crappy looking chrome bits all over and never drive them. And Vette's depreciate like any other Chevy... "Like a Rock"

 

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a scam. Typically you have to buy a few used cars to get on their list of new cars. It's the only way to control the massive demand and not so massive supply. If you were presented with an F430 Spider at retail would you not take it and flip it assuming you had no interest in the car?

on a sidenote beautiful 308

 

you kids need to stop speculation. NO WAY will a 430 be worth only 140 in 3 yrs. Hell a 3 yr old 360 is still going for 175-180 and that's not near the car a 430 is. I no longer will argue with kids and their dreams. Enjoy your corvettes and camaros and mustangs.

 

You make a good point and perhaps very true... or be a good friend of the dealer. My parent's friend got a new top-line Mercedes and bumped to top of the list because they were good friends with the dealership owner.

Not sure about 'massive' demand, but they do a great job at controlling supply and demand. Nothing wrong with that, it is a free market. But a fool and his money (mumbling to self... $240k?!?).

Thanks. Track her EVERY chance i get and take her to the store for food shopping, the beach, etc

But in reality, for the same $$$ i could of had a MUCH higher perfoaming car. Guess sanity and being the caretaker of a Ferrari are not mutually exclusive, nor inclusive.

 

The Cam and Stang are horrid, but i feel the need to defend the new Corvette. No, i do not own one, have never owned a Corvette, etc. Still, it is quite an impressive car for the money.

 

I don't think that was a joke at all.............hate to say it but...( so true ).
I think it's more of reliability issue....
Just last month, The Porsche club Thailand had there sprinter 800 km. up north from Bangkok. We, Ferrari club Thailand had our run 200 km. south of Bangkok and many of us complained for a too long a distance. The last thing you want is having to stall your Ferrari in the middle of no where. Trust me, if you own Ferrari long enough, Slide tow truck is your second vehicle....... and it can very well happen again.

 

"you have to buy a few used cars to get on their list of new cars" I guess this is the part that I (a legitimate new buyer who has been buying a new Porsche every year or two for the last 20 years) has a little of a problem with . It is one thing to be put on a list for a few years but to be forced to buy a few used cars to get a new Ferrari at MSRP just seems wrong and it from what I see is just a US thing .

Why is it so hard to give a person a legitimate order # and put them in line , playing games with used car sales is so tacky . And then what if you do not sell it back to them with low miles do you loose your good spot for the next one you are on the list for ....
I only hope that the new 997TT is a 500+ HP thing of beauty that leaves the 430 behind on the track so I will not feel so bad about not being able to play along with the ridicules games that US Ferrari dealers play .

 

Mother Theresa isn't in the Ferrari business.


Every time FNA or Spa complains to the dealers about such practices the response is the same "You create the problem by creating the shortage".

Hard to argue.

 

Keeping the miles down applies to all ferrari it seems with a few exceptions of course, not just to new ones. People tell me to keep my BB under the 40,000 kms mark if I want it to retain its value. That sucks! I want to drive it but considering the cost of the car and its condition, I dont really want that to change so I keep it to a minimum and drive it on nice days. Im enjoying it thats for sure and it aint no garage queen but Im aware of the concequences of over use. Breakage isnt one of my concerns just making it look worn out and tired over time is.

I also believe the 430 is 3 times the car a 360 is, maybe not "worth" $240K but worth a lot more than a 360 - better in every way as my friend tells me from first hand experience.

 

....... the monsters has taken over the business........????? and introduce this listing game.....?????

 

You only say that because you weren't around in the late 80's.


These guys are pikers.

 

The answer is really quite simple, but most people seem to have a hard time grasping the concept. If you can and want to, drive the living hell out of your car. If you don't have the time or inclination don't. Its that simple. You own the car so do what ever in the hell you want to.
In support of the garage queen however, when you go to a car show and drool over a pristine Ferrari from the 50's or 60's do you ever wonder how in the hell that happened?

 

I buy things for my use. My 550 has 60,000 miles on it. The next owner for my beast will pay whatever he wants. I care not for the price I sell at, only what I buy at. This is for my toys only.

12 cylinders or walk.

 

Bart, is that you sneaking around???

 

It gets really complicated, depends on what you are driving. A 308 will never be a highly sought after car so go ahead and drive it. Mine has 160,000kms on it and dont think the value will really go down any more than it has anyway. A 550 is in the same catagory as is a 360 and 355 a 348 and so on. All are mass produced and high volume (for ferrari) cars that will most likely not be highly sought after so use it and be happy. An f40 is different as is a 288 GTO and 246 dino blah blah blah. Nobody will wet their pants over a 456 like they do a 750 monza, drive it in the rain, drive it everyday it aint going to be worth much either way.

 

Here are some comments from a real 430 buyer who actually bought one at MSRP----me!

Most of what I see written on this site about buiying new Ferraris is heresay at best and often plain misguided.

BTW, my 430 has 2700 miles on it in 100 days, probably 10-15K of depreciation. I plan to keep driving it --a lot. I'm willing to take my lumps should I ever sell it. However, the value declines each day whether I drive it or not, plus property tax, insurance and lost income on the money all add up to about $30 a day just sitting there, so I drive it. When and if it is not worth it to me anymore, I'll sell it.

I was on "the list" for 35 months, long before we knew it would be a 430. I am not a friend of the owner, and I did not buy used cars from them. They knew I was a multiple Ferrari owner and did not even get them seviced there. I did buy a Lotus Elise, but that was long after I was on the list and doing so did not move me up.

As far as flipping goes, they told me that if I wanted to sell it, they would like a chance to buy it, but there was no obligation to sell it to them should I get a better offer elsewhere. They did say that if I sold it elsewhere without giving them a chance, that getting another new Ferrari might be difficult. I don't find this unreasonable at all. I do know that they sometimes make deals with customers before delivery to buy the car for resale. Cars do get flipped with delivery miles, but I think that most are spoken for ahead of time and that is why most of the offereings have several 100 miles or more on them. I have a local friend who originally was on the list for a 360 spider but ultimately was rolled over to a 430. He was planning on keeping the car, but with 300K staring him in the face, he flipped it instead. I don't blame him. My coupe was never worth nearly that much over MSRP, so I was not tempted.

As to the low mileage obsession. Steve Ahlgrim explained to me many years ago that the problem is that buyers who can pony up enough for a used Ferrari can almost always pony up enough for a low mileage example, and that is what they want. So, a relatively high mileage example can be a hard sell unless steeply discounted. Other reasons for low mileage include the fact that Ferraris are rarely more than toy cars to begin with, to be used for weekend pleasure drives in good weather. They are also often part of a larger car collection with which they have to share driving time. I am lucky enough, being self employed that my Ferraris sometimes do double duty, and they get driven more regularly. I also like long drives of 200-300-400 miles in one day.

IMO, FNA should allow dealers to sell cars at market levels which would get rid of speculators all together and prices would probably come down to MSRP relatively quickly. Most dealers only get 25-35 cars a year and could really use the extra profit when the market allows. If you are like me and would never consider paying over list, then you just wait. But the years long lists would be gone and, I believe, everyone would be happier, except those privileged few who get an early example of a new model and make a lot of money without doing anything.


PS: No one holds a gun to people's heads and makes them pay 240. for a 430 coupe (BTW early 360 coupes sold for 250K). The sellers are not "ripping people off" and you can bet that any dealer with customers with 240K in hand are more than willing to pay 220-230K for a car to satisfy the buyer. This is free market at it's all American best.

I'll relinquish my soapbox now. Thank you for your patience.

Dave