Cold Start Problem-no fast idle

the electorvalve is just a solinoid (sp?) anyway when voltage is applied it moves so i would assume an open circut unless voltage is supplied. can you check with the car running after a cold start within the first 5 mins? before it gets to hot? i know alot of those circuts can only be checked with a cold engine, then once its warms you have to wait hours before a re-check.

if the valve isn't opening it could be a bimetalic strip in the WUR or the thermal gauge. most of the earlier systems ran reduntant cold start valves, not sure of the 85' Qv though, i'll look in the WSM.

 

okay here is a schematic of the 308 2v not sure how different it is though.
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Im not familiar with the component but any solenoid should have continuity (no open circut). If you have "out of limits" on your digital multimeter then it is fubared provided it is indeed a solenoid.

 

Steve.. I too have a dog in this fight, my 86 328 isn't going into cold start warm up (fast idle). So if anyone has any ideas I'm open for suggestions and sources for parts.

Thus far I've been told to check the Aux Air Valve (the one under the expansion tank), I haven't checked it yet but I'm gonna start there.

I had a 308 2V & spoke to someone at Norwoods who recommended I replace the vlave you show on your photo. I think I obtained one from Brian Keegan...

 

Steve, you should have some value, its really unimportant what the spec is at this point because yours is garbage either way.

 

Steve you have a PM..

Mike

 

Steve you have a PM..

Mike

 

http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm

 

okay i brain farted that one. the ohm resistance should be around 11-12 ohms. the silenoid is an electromagnet you should show a resitance equal to the iductance. i think i got that right. but i did just check mine and it read 12 ohms. mines new and works fine.

 

My BBi has two of every damn thing and I have no fast idle when cold. Im familiar with the air valve and the freezer test as well but can these things be opened to be unstuck if thats the case? Also, has anyone here taken apart the warm up regulators to clean them?

 

as for the idle up during cold start. the WUR recieves a signal from the thermal switch on the top of the block. but there is also a cold start bypass valve that recives a signal from the switch mounted in the expansion tank. so why two? from what i have heard the bypass valve was to insure fast hot running to get the cats up to temp to pass emmisions, however that high rpm cold start starts to wear on you rings and and bearings. personally i removed the bypass system and now only run the WUR set-up. still idles up when cold and runs fine. i no longer have to check reduntant parts. to each his own on that though.

 

it's a bi-metalic strip connected to a spring and "gate" you can at best clean the opening to insure free unstuck movement. i don't think though that the regulator can be opened itself. R&R on that one.

 

Steve -- I'm not hopeful that fixing your "bad" electrovalve will also affect the cold idle speed (since it controls whether or not your pulse air injection system is running -- not how much air is entering the engine intake tract), but stranger things have happened, and you can simulate a working electrovalve without even buying a new one yet just to see what happens (However, long-term it's best to have a working pulse air injection system in any case).

Your guesstimate at the electrovalve coil resistance is about right or maybe a little high -- if you measure one "cold" (with a low-current multimeter) it might be 40~50 ohms, but the wire is thin and long enough that the resistance will go up when the real current is actually flowing (but as you've already surmised, it's a 100~250mA kind of current and not a 1A current).

The jpeg shows an electrovalve where I've numbered the ports 1, 2, and 3 so we can communicate more easily (it's not your exact electrovalve application so the hose connections are different in the jpeg). Port 3 is the "metal" port.

For your '85QV:

Cold start-up = electrovalve energized = the vacuum source line on port 1 is connected to the line on port 2 that goes over to the Cut-off Valve "A". This opens Cut-off Valve "A", and the pulse air injection system is active. Port 3 (going to the atmosphere) is blocked closed.

Warm-running = electrovalve not energized = the vacuum source line on port 1 is blocked closed and the line on port 2 from the Cut-off Valve "A" is vented to the atmosphere via port 3. This closes Cut-off Valve "A", and the pulse air injection system is not active.

If you want to simulate a "working" electrovalve during cold start-up, just remove the lines from port 1 and port 2 and connect them together with an appropriate little tube, but make sure you label them so you get the right line back onto the right port later. It is also important that you don't do this during warm-running since this "forces" the air injection system to always run and the extra air in the exhaust will drive the Lambda system crazy.

Good hunting...
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I removed the hoses from the earlier jpeg of the electrovalve to try to make things a little less confusing, and this jpeg shows your electrovalve with the corresponding port numbers labeled:
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Well, I'm sort of glad that that didn't fix your problem

It's still a good idea to have a working air injection system so do replace that electrovalve if you measure its coil as "open".

If you've already confirmed that the AAV is opening when cold and closing when warm then you've got to look elsewhere.

One problem with K-Jet with Lambda systems is that, if something goes wrong on the electrical/Lambda side, it will still sort of run OK-ish when warm like a dumb K-Jet if the A/F mixture has been retweaked when warm -- so let me ask some background questions:

1. Was it working correctly before and this is a recent new problem, or has it never been right?

2. Have you confirmed that the Frequency (Lambda) Valve is always "buzzing" (working) when the engine is running? On K-Jet with Lambda systems, if the "protection" relay goes bad (i.e., no +12V to run the injection system) and someone retweaks the AF mixture (with a dead Frequency Valve), it will sort of work OK when warm as a dumb K-Jet, but it's not the right fix.

3. Have you tried measuring the O2 sensor voltage output (the single O2 sensor wire relative to ground with everything still plugged in) during warm idle to see if it is really running closed-loop? If it is running closed-loop, this voltage should be varying between 0 to +1V in a quasi-sinusoidal way every couple of seconds.

Your checking the Warm-up regulator control pressure cold and warm is a good idea too. Since you tweak the thing up when warm, the Warm-up regualtor could be totally wacky, and warm-running would be OKish, but cold-running would be poor.

And has often come up before, it never hurts to make sure that the injection system electronics located in the trunk is dry and to check/reseat the connections.

 

Honestly, if the only issue here is the cold start high-idle device, I would leave it not working. I disconnected mine on purpose. All it does is race the engine when cold and not well lubricated in order to heat the cats faster. This was done to make the feds happy, not the car happy. Our '83 Mondial starts right up in 10 degree weather and idles fine with no high idle device. It made me wince to start it in cold weather and have the engine run immediately right up to 2500 or so RPM. UGH!

Birdman

 

That's good -- confirms the +12V power is OK/present.

Just follow the single wire from the O2 sensor (the dual wire from the O2 sensor is just for the internal heater) -- it will have a male/female spade connection where you can attach the voltmeter lead while leaving the connection connected.

Glad to lend some minor assistance. If you do confirm that it runs closed-loop when at warm idle, I'd have to guess that the Warm-up regulator has "aged" or broken, but the control pressure measurements will confirm/deny that. Keep chewing