Bought a Ferrari sight unseen

I was reluctant to post this, but I decided to. If anyone is considering doing this, let me tell you about my experience.

First of all, I know many of you would never do this, sight unseen is a big No, No. Much like most people on this board I work long crazy hours and I travel a lot. To avoid an additional two days away from home, I decided to take the seller's word for it, who was a member of this board, which I felt gave him some credibilty.

The car overall is good and I am happy with it. I would still buy the car, I probably would have gave the seller $2k less. What annoys me more than anything is the fact that he flat-out lied in some cases and in others didn't mention additional problems the car had.

The owner did not own the car very long, so he had an original PPI report performed by a respectable Ferrari Mechanic in San Deigo. I reviewd the original report, which he faxed to me. Certain areas of the car were rated on a 0 - 10 scale. The car had all 9's and 8's. Everything else checked out fine, paint, body, tires, mechanics, etc.

This was great, but I still had a PPI done by an exotic car repair shop, and the inspection well.

I explicitly asked him over e-mail, if there was anyhing that needed to be replaced, not get the price down, but more so I knew about it. "No, it's perfect."

I figured there would be some small issues to deal with as the car is 15 years old.

When I got the car, the seller included all the service history, When I got the car it looked good from the get go, and it is good looking. But....

The first thing I noticed was the front spoiler was a mess. He made no mention of this. It clearly needs to be re-sprayed. I'm not being a picky person, but if this was on any car - let alone a Ferrari - it needs to be done. $1300 to get it painted professionaly. Lesson learned whatever.

I went to get gas, the gas door would not open, even though the seller told me he spent $500 fixing it. I asked him about it an he said it broke again shortly after having it fixed. Lesson learned again. The gas door switch goes way beyond that in the sense that you can't even open the gas door with manual pull as it's jammed and it's shorting the switch out and at least $500 for parts and labor to have it fixed. I now need to spend at least $1700 to get the car in the condition I thought it was in, with the gas door & front spoiler.

I reviewd the service documentation, it was all there. Mechanically this car has been updated and maintained. Thank god for that.
But the seller left the original PPI report from the mechanic in San Deigo that he faxed to me. I noticed he cut out with an exacto knife something about the front spoiler, probably the fact that it needed re-painting. I called the mechanic in San Deigo and confirmed that it was in fact about the front spoiler. I asked the seller about it and he said his nephew wrote a "bad word".

I also noticed he changed some of the numbers that were used to grade elements of the car from 7's to 8's and 9's. Not cool.

I'm having some of these issues delt with by a local Ferrari mechanic here in New England. One additional element was the fact that the front sprayer on the passenger side fell off, and fluid would not come out of the jets. Should have been about $100 fix with labor and parts, but it turns out there is a leak in tank, which needs to be fixed or replaced. The part is $200, who know how long it will take to install, but I'm thinking at least an hours labor - so know I am beyond $2000.

Also, there are some issues with the body. The small black triangle by the door mirror is cracked - another $300 gone. Plus there have been some dents that have been pulled by a dent wizard...very hard to see - maybe he didn't notice it.

Anyway, I personally think it's obsurd that you would lie and sell yourself for $2000. He was asking top dollar for the car, and one would not expect to have these problems.

Sorry about my rant.... My 348 really is in tip-top shape now...it just cost me more than what I, and many people, find fair.

I suppose it could be worse, something mechanical.

 

Congratulatinos on the car. All and all it could have been worse. It sounds like you will have a perfect car shortly. Drive it in good health and have fun.

 

Matthew did your PPI turn up any of the problems?

 

I can understand a PPI not showing the gas door problem since most mechanics probably don't try to open the gas door as part of their inspection, however, the messed up bumper should have been noted. Any decent ppi would have indicated the possible need for a whole bumper respray due to rock chips, etc.

 

Good question. I'd be asking the mechanic that YOU paid to do the PPI why HE didn't see these problems. It sounds like most of them, particularly the front spoiler, were pretty obvious. At the very least, I'd want my money back.

That said, enjoy the car! Sounds like now that it's sorted out, you've got yourself a good one.

 

Yeah, well I found the PPI I had done wasn't the best. But I did get compression and leakdown numbers. I asked the guy over the phone about the condition of the exterior car and he said it looked great - so he wasn't too helpful in that regard.

But the PPI from the mechanic that he bought it from just four months before I bought it from him certainly had it, but he cut it out of the report with an exacto knife.

All and all I love the car, just annoyed - not even at the small problems, but more that he was so dishonest he altered the original PPI report.

 

I bought one without a PPI AND without seeing it.

And, in the words of my mechanic, "It is the finest example of a used Ferrari of its age range that I have seen". I got a great car. Runs well. Was as advertised.

I think where you screwed up is here.......

1. You didn't get pics of EVERY inch of the car. I didn't see it in person, BUT was able to study high resolution pics of every inch of the car.

2. You didn't send him a multi-question email asking about problems. I did. I sent a 50 question document to the seller to answer. Questions like, "Are there ANY cosmetic issues with the car that would be considered "less than PERFECT" by a buyer?" and "Please detail EVERY stone chip, dent, scrape, scratch, or other imperpection larger than 2mm." And on and on. Basically, if I was going to save the guy the time showing me the car, he could take that time to fill out this sheet. Not EVERYTHING was perfect, but at least I KNEW where EVERY "issue" was when it showed up.

Alright, enough about me. I would nail this guy for falsification of documents. That is a SERIOUS offense. And you already have PROOF and a witness (mechanic). I would call the guy back, show him you have the evidence, make him piss his pants, and pay you BACK $1500. OR he can take the car back and pay for YOUR shipping fees, titling fees, gas, etc..

I am pretty sure he will take the $1500 way out. Or he is an idiot.

He took a chance by doing what he did. And now he will pay for it.....

 

Great that the car is in decent shape; people have struggled a lot more than $2k to make a car right. I spent $10k getting a 308 where I wanted it, and that was bought from a dealer! This was before it developed syncro problems, of course.

What concerns me more is what seems to be outright deception on the seller's part. If the PPI grading was in fact altered, and the spoiler respray note was cut out before faxing, that really indicates scum-of-the-earth lying and deception that is far more insulting than $2k. Any F-car buyer should budget for $2k to fix things that would become annoying to you but that the seller got used to--not an abnormal scenario, really (though I understand again about the omissions).

If you ask me, I think you should call this seller out so he has some repercussions for his actions, has a chance to offer his side of the story. Perhaps you might save us from dealing with this person again. That's one of the nice features of this site--it can help call attention to issues like this.

See what other people think, and if they support it, I would suggest you consider naming the seller, then give him a chance to clear his name.

Or your could simply put this all behind you and get down to the business of enjoying your 348--I personally would want to resolve the negative aspects of the transaction though.

Congratulations on your purchase! Don't forget our site sponsor Daniel at Ricambi America who, owning a 348, has all the good stuff needed to keep them tip-top: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/index.php


--Mike

 

yeah, the idea is really pressure sellers for pictures. My car was purchased sight unseen and I wouldn't have bought it had I not received over 100 high res photos of different parts to look at. My dad's new M3 was also bought the same way, both times we have been lucky.

 

It's weird the 2nd guy didn't mention it, but the first did. Unfortunately it was removed by exacto knife.

 

I say name him-----let us all know who he is----wouldn't you like to know if there is a person on this board that will flat out lie about something like this--to another member here.. I agree w/o having gone and looked at it--you had to have known there would be surprises--big NO.NO and you know this, but the falsefying of those documents----that **** aint right.. And in a civil case he would lose!!!!!

 

"But the seller left the original PPI report from the mechanic in San Deigo that he faxed to me. I noticed he cut out with an exacto knife something about the front spoiler, probably the fact that it needed re-painting. I called the mechanic in San Deigo and confirmed that it was in fact about the front spoiler. I asked the seller about it and he said his nephew wrote a "bad word".

I also noticed he changed some of the numbers that were used to grade elements of the car from 7's to 8's and 9's."

Who did the redacting and renumbering? The seller or the mechanic who did the original PPI? That's the most disturbing, and likely the actionable part of the whole story.

 

We should leave legal opinions to WHart, but I have a couple of observations:

1. I would never consider membership on this board a reference of any sort.

2. Photos never reveal everything. If you get anal and ask for the condition of every square inch, you will likely be blown off. It is 15 years old.

3. Even the most meticulous of PPI's are going to miss something. A few hours just does not allow it. Every car I bought, I found things weeks, even months later that I didn't see even with a good look over. Usually, I find the most flaws the 1st time I wash and wax a car. Seems like that's the only way to really check a car's cosmetic condition. Even my 430 had about 6 flaws from the factory, but it took a while to find them all.

4. Some of the flaws you believe are or were dents may have actually been there from the factory. Lexus's these are not. I have owned 5 3X8's and all had little finish flaws, ripples, depressions, etc. Dealers tell me this was normal, and it varies greatly from car to car.

5. There is no substitute for seeing it yourself. I bought my current 328 sight unseen with a PPI like you did. Yet, a few little things were missed that maybe I could have negotiated had I been there. But, I was busy, travel is expensive, so I took the chance. It is a great car, and 4 years later I plan to keep it until I am dead, so no regrets.

6. You should be pissed about the apparent deception. The only question is how much trouble is worth to try to recover anything.

7. I have not seen a "perfect" used Ferrari yet no matter what the owner says. In fact, I haven't seen a perfect new one yet either. If you can get away with making it like you want for 2K more, that's way cheaper than average.

Congrats,
Dave

 

Matthew,
Congrats on the car! Don't let this scumbag detract from the joy and pride of you owning and enjoying a Ferrari.

 

enjoy the car. it could have been a LOT worse.

i bought my 355 sight-unseen from an authorized dealer.

the car was in fact "perfect" except that one of the panels had been resprayed. it's possible that the selling dealer didn't know about it - it was done exceptionally well. i didn't know about it until i sold the car and the buying dealer (another authorized dealer) found the masking tape in the wheel well.

it totally didn't impact my ownership, but i also won't do it again. i got lucky.

the selling dealer jerked me around in other ways though, but that had nothing to do with the car being bought sight-unseen.

doody.

 

If you bought the car sight unseen and you can get away with making it "perfect" for 2K I wouldn't sweat it too much .

 

All Ferraris have stories.

Enjoy the car for what it is.

Drive it, fix it, repeat.

 

Trust but verify. Most people lie when it comes to car sales and even more so with F-cars. Unfortunately you'll just have to chalk up the $2K mistake. Sorry for the misrepresentation.

 

Most folks "fudge" when selling a car, its human nature. I never believe anyone. If someone changed a ppi printout, thats something different...

 

Congrats on the new Fcar! Enjoy it!

I know traimpz348 ranted about things he had to fix, but it seemed to be just venting and he realizes that all in all it could have been worse.

What I think the real reason he is venting about anything at all is not about the $2K to fix X,Y,Z... Rather the fact that the seller intentionally redacted a document he was using to document the "good" condition of the car, and did the redaction in such a way that would make the redaction "hidden". ie. cut out the problem note, rather than cross it out. It is a fraudulent act on which action can be brought.

It is one thing to not mention a relatively minor item, or carefully word an answer so someone doesn't pick up on something. It is a completely different scenario to use a document and physically cut out a section so it cannot be scene. That is an intentional act.

Alot of reply's seem to focus on the few parts he had to fix, and that isn't the real issue, IMHO. It's the principal of the matter.

 

I bought my 328 sight unseen and it was the perfect beautiful car the dealer said it was. I recently sold the car and went through a local dealer who only deals in the finest examples and it was sold to a buyer out of state sight unseen. I guess it's not a problem to buy a car without seeing it you just have to find someone you can trust. If you buy a car in the future try www.kipshewardmotorsports.com

 

Post his name and city. I will get the rope. Ha Ha

James

 

I know the car that Matt now owns, and in fact sold the previous owner some of the parts in reference to the items still needing repair. In my conversations with him (voice and email), he was quite enthusiastic about Ferraris, seemed genuinely interested in the car, and most importantly, struck me as the kind of person who would rationally discuss and resolve this issue directly with Matt.

While I certainly understand Matt's frustration (and hopefully his glee with being part of the elite 348 Brotherhood), I think we should leave the issue to a conversation between Matt and the prior owner. If they can reach a resolution between them, there's no need to raise a lynch mob. If things sour, then obviously they can each do whatever they chose.

Armchair quarterbacks rarely win the Super Bowl.

-Daniel

 

Good points made by all who responded. I agree with you that a guy would sell his soul for a crummy 2k. The only way to look at that is that he needed it more than you. I believe I would let him know of your discoveries and ask him what he would like to do or how he would like to handle. I would not persue legal avenues as it's just not worth it. All 15 year old cars got something wrong but it's the dishonesty part that sucks. If you are satisfied with the car overall and it sounds like you are then enjoy. A small lesson learned.

 

Congratulations on the purchase, Matt.

Personally, there are only a couple of instances in which I would buy a car like a Ferrari sight unseen. I did it only one time and it was with Motorcars International, which has a stellar reputation in the exotic car world.

For future reference, Fchatters have been known to be very helpful when it comes to inspecting a car for another user. I've seen numerous posts regarding it in the past and they almost always get helpful replies.