Dino Saga 051204

Dino Saga 051204

More of what we found, so far!

My background is in electronics, physics, modeling. I have always been able to take things apart and usually put them back together better than I found them. Someone quoted Phil Hill to the effect that you should drive a car as though you could fix it. That has been my philosophy since about age 10 and has been the philosophy of most of the people that I have associated with for the succeeding 60+ years. I assumed that a mechanic who had worked on exotics for a few years had the skill to actually put it back together better than he found it. And that he understood that the book is only a reminder for someone who really does not need a book except for the most exacting details. In other words, I expect a mechanic to reverse engineer the car as he works on it. After all, the engineers who design these things had a reason for everything and the mechanics role is to verify the reason or to improve on the design. Deciding that a part is not necessary or that a tolerance is too tight, or that a procedure is too time consuming, without willing to run the experiment, is a sure road to disaster. And above all, you have to spend the time, thinking of nothing but the specific job at hand. No cell phone!

We found parts substituted, procedures not followed, broken bolts and time probably taken in dribs and drabs. Above all, carelessness.

Block is on the stand, crank is back in, pistons have been relieved and are back in. More little parts have been ordered. All the belleville washers were missing and plain flat washers substituted. Cam bolt locking tabs missing or broken. GT Car Parts and UPS to the rescue again. More pics next week.

Below are a few detail pics. Share the misery.

More patience,

John
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You might check that you have the heat shield for the starter. That is a part that is a nussiance to install and is frequently left off by mechanics that can't be bothered with details. I expect better than half the Dinos out there are missing this part. The consequence of not having this is a starter that is cooked to an early death. In the process, the ring gear on the flywheel can be ruined as well, so it can cause expensive collateral damage also.

Symptons begin with a starter failing intermittantly when the motor is hot.

The part can be difficult to find but can be bought at Superformance.
I know, I had that problem.
Mark

 

I wouldn't substitute plain washer for bellville washers. Bellville washers are a dished locking type washer as opposed to a plain washer. I know McMaster-Carr has them (Google) and probably Maryland Metrics. I even think Auveco and surely MSC should carry them.

 

He wasn't saying that he was replacing the belleville washers with flat washers, but that the previous mechanic did.

 

Do you wonder why the previous mechanic is OUT of business ?

I went in there when he was working on another Dino motor (a FIAT Dino) and was appalled at his workspace clutter and workmanship, I actually had thought of having him work on my Dino at one time dues to his supposed to be good reputation, ask him, he would tell you how good he was. After seeing him work on that other car, I walked out wondering if he knew what a torque wrench was and if he could find it in his mess. Unfortunately it was too late for John and his Dino. The FIAT Dino had smoking and oil comsuption problems before it got sold.

Weird part is this guy worked on exotics for years, I used to love driving by his place and seeing what was in the shop. Its a paved parking lot now.

 

John I know the feeling on the oil pick-up. I think that most mechanics will first pull the motor from the crankcase/transaxel, this leads to the bending of the oil pick-up. First you must remove the crankcase sump, that clears the oil pickup for removal. Mine was bent up and with a deft hand was able to restore it. The sump and oil pick-up must be fitted dry so that they will be able to go back together without a hitch. I actually had to trim the tin oil baffles slightly to allow this occur. On mine they had hit the side of the crankcase to prevent the installation of the sump cover and baffle system.
I am amazed at how clean the top of your pistons look outside of the valve contact.

 

John, I'm in Ventura we have a small contingent of Ferrari guys down here. We should get together sometime. I have a small Ferrari museum at my house and would like to see your car when its back together. jack used to have a 275 does he still have it?

Rob Garven
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John, you really need to read Carroll Smith's "Nuts, Bolts, Fasterners and Plumbing" handbook. My copy is at home, but I distinctly remember he would not allow tab washers, nor split ring "lock" washers on his race cars. I don't think he was a fan of Bellville washers either. You should at least make sure the your vendors are supplying ARP type quality. Washers should be parallel ground and hardened not stamped. Here is the ARP catalog:
http://www.arp-bolts.com/ARP_2005CatFinal(p)work.id2.pdf

 

JCR, actually the belleville washers are a very good thing, they allow the aluminum to grow and or the nut to lossen slightly with out losing seal on gaskets. The washers in question are standard Ferrari item on Johns Dino.

 

Who is the original mechanic being referred to? Could be useful info for anyone buying a car. Service records by said mechanic must surely be a warning sign....

 

Right, on Belleville washers.

We use them on switchgear applications on buss bars........man, to leave them off, for flat washers .......shudder!

That blows!!!

 

My hubs use tab washers and I'd be hard pressed to figure out how to avoid them and still have confidence one of my rear wheels wouldn't some day be passing my car. What's best from an engineering standpoint may not be practical in real world applications.

Ken

 

So a Belleville washer is a cupped springy lock washer? Different from the common metric "wavy" lock washer?

Andrew Watry
308 GT4

 

Yes, in appearance it's pretty imperceptable, but imagine a spring steel washer as a 'cone', and you pretty much have it!

With the outer rim on the table the inner edge would be elevated off the surface. When compressed it exerts spring tension on the nut from below to avoid loosening...as noted it would allow for heat cycling, to a degree......they actually are intended to be preset 'loaded' to certain torque values as the fastener is tightened....

So replacing them with a standard flat washer is uh......supremely stupid!
Must have been late at night, after the local hardware store was closed!!!!!

Even a split lock washer would not offer the same performance, IMO...

 

My Mercury props are held on with a tab style retaining washer as well, but I wouldn't reuse it more than a few times due to fatigue...they actually have six tabs and you bang down whichever three match the hex nut sides the best.....

 

John, I'm so sorry to here your misfortune!!!

We just "discovered" your Ferrari recently...a month or so ago, on this site??

 

I now have Smith's book in front of me, he says,

"Belleville Washers: If I should ever think I need a lock washer, I will use a Belleville-type washer. These full-cone washers are made of thick spring steel and , when compressed, develop enough compressive stress to do some real good. They are available from good fastener houses and are sort of a poorman's place bolt. In fact, several manufacturers use them for special applications, like holding crankshaft torsional vibration dampers."

Here is his quote about Tab Washers: "I consider the tab washer to be an idiot device. In order for us to be able to bend the tab over the face of the bolt, the tab must be relatively soft. In service cyclic stress may well cause the soft washer to squeeze out sufficiently to allow the bolt to relax its tension. It doesn't take much rotation to lose the residual stress. When this happens, the clamping force is lost and the fatigue life of the bolt itself will be shortened by a remarkable amount. Thus this supposed safety device has become a harzard. I do not allow the use of tab washers on my projects. If you must use a tab washer, use a stainless steel one. Never reuse a tab washer."

Another good reference is for fasteners is "High Performance Hardware" by Forbes Aird.

 

Whew! Thanks for that retraction!

 

Didn't know these washers were not so well known in the Ferrari community. Both 6 and 8mm washers are all over the Dino engine. I have used them for years in precision instrumentation. Was impressed that Ferrari used them and was shocked to find them discarded on last rebuild.

Belleville washers are hardened steel, cone shaped washers. Spring action occurs when cone is flattened. Force is almost constant over the entire deflection range. Works great with aluminum parts subject to temp. swings. Keeps gaskets tight too.

Washer is placed with bottom of cone against soft material and top of cone in contact with nut or bolt head. They are not expensive. Usually under 20 cents each for 8mm.

German wave washers generally have much lower force but the idea is the same. Didn't Ferrari use belleville washers on many other engines? Seems like a good idea until the advent of CNC tooling with virtually no tolerances.

At any event, new correct washers are in and I have more pics. Machine shop is moving along.

Until Sunday,

John