Current Dino values and trends

azzuro california very light blue
Erik

 

Food for thought........fully recognizing that a brokered deal is not the same as a bought deal.

As a dealer when I am discussing the purchase of a car offered to me by someone and ask them their selling price, I always preface my remarks by opening my chequebook on the desk in front of them and saying that........"you had better be prepared to leave me the keys and take a taxi home today if I accept your price, for if you change your mind after I have agreed to pay your price, I respectfully request that you never enter my place of business again".

Then I let them decide what they will do before they give me a number. 25% walk.....and 75% give me a handshake and a number that I either accept or negotiate.

I never, ever, attempt do business again with someone who goes back on their word. I've refused to accept a $5K bump over and above the previously agreed upon number on a cancelled deal by someone who initially weaseled out.

Life is too short, I am too busy.....and credibility is more bankable than cash.

 

Agreed, which is why I'm making the broker whole and eating the prospective buyer's travel and PPI expenses. My bad. **** happens.

 

Les.....

My comment wasn't directed at you. I know you from Rennlist as well where I post. It was a general comment on the symantics involved in buying cars from a dealer's perspective. Not knowing what was said in your brokered deal makes it foolish for me to suggest otherwise. I was not my intent to impune your character.

 

So, as a customer, can I walk into your establishment, look at your cars, and hardball you too?

Or, do you ask them up front, "Do you have your checkbook with you today? Because I'm going to give you a price for the car I'm selling, and if you don't buy I'm going to want you to leave and never come back."

OR, how about a customer who says, "I'll give you $x for that nice Pinto. IF you don't like X, I'm gonna move on down the road even if you only want $x+1?" Doesn't sound to me like a perfect formula for success for either party.

And the window sellers, who are testing the water. By tossing them out, you miss on the opportunity three months later when they really are ready.

You contradict yourself. They ask for $X. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE OFFER, YOU WEASEL ("negotiate") THE PRICE DOWN. BUT, IF THEY RECONSIDER SELLING, THEY ARE WEASELING OUT?

Do you offer another option? Guy brings you a car. Can he ask, "What will you offer?" Or is that wasting your time too?

And do you have a nice sign out front that says, "No weasel car sellers, no window shoppers or tire kickers, just customers who won't waste my time."

DM

 

Hi Dave.....!!

Sorry for not replying last night but I shut her down early and haven't been back until this AM.

Anyways......here's my reply as I have a break........I just figured out the VB quote function so please bare with me if I have to edit this a couple of times to get it right.

Of course you can......it happens all the time.......it's part of the art of negotiation and one of many approachs you can choose from. It's no sweat if you do.

You are being ridiculious here quite frankly......however Saturn and Ferrari to name just a couple of manufacturer's have been very succesful with just this approach, albeit in a different manner than that. To wit.....any dealer will accept MSRP.....some sell over MSRP.....if you don't want to pay MSRP today you are welcome to leave and come back......FOR NO CONTRACT WAS ENTERED INTO AND BROKEN. Buyer's get qualified all the time, it's how you do it that matters.....and sometimes you have to do it a certain way.....time is money......and if you are not serious you won't get my time.

Then that customer is free to go and return with no harm done because, once again, NO CONTRACT WAS ENTERED INTO AND BROKEN. It's my car to sell for what I want......and as I do not sell Pinto's or what can be termed readily available volume cars of which several are alike and for sale at the same time on the open market it's not a valid point of discussion.

They do not get tossed out if they DO NOT BREAK A CONTRACT THAT THEY ENTERED INTO. Automotive appraisals costs $200 in most areas.......and as most EVERYONE has internet access or can obtain it they can usually come up with a realistic value for a vehicle and determine what they will take for it. They are, after all, the owners of the item for sale. ANYONE who says that they DO NOT KNOW what their car is worth is either just plain stupid or lying. I will not deal with stupid people as it leaves me open to litigation, nor will I deal with liars.

Again you are wrong. There is no contradiction. NO AGREEMENT WAS ENTERED INTO AND BROKEN.

Yes it is a waste of my time. I do not respond to these inquiries because appraisals cost $200 and I do not want someone running around town saying well Kds will give me X...will you beat it by $500 ? I approach business with military strategy......and giving away intelligence to your competitiors does you no good. People who are bidders on objects always overpay at the end of the day IMHO. If you don't know what your car is worth or what you want for it I will not take advantage of you by lowballing you which is what always happens in these circumstances.

It's not necessary.......as I have a full client base from almost 18 years of being in this business and have successfully weeded out most of them.......but I could always charge $10 like Wynn's Ferrari does when I get that big. LOL !! The sign outside my business does not say "UNITED WAY CAR SALES" however............FWIW.

Seems like you want to have it all for yourself without regard for the consequences of your actions upon others. In business, commonly in M&A situations a "break up fee" is part of the contract.......and in the car business deposits are in some cases non-refundable except where prohibited by law.

In the case of this thread Les did the correct thing by compensating both the broker and prospective purchaser, thus retaining the credibility of all three parties involved in the transaction. Kudos to him for mentioning that in an unsolicited manner......would "you" have it any other way ? I will not ponder the answer to that based upon my bold comments in the above paragraph. I hope you've read my signature and are not still mad at me for suggesting in another thread that insurance is for repairs and not restoration.

 

If there is no consignment aggrement then what could any of this matter? You said it yourself no contract was entered into and broken then there are no hard feelings and it doesn't matter you have said this 5 times in your post. So, just to clarify if we are acquantances and you know I have a 355 and might sell it, and you ask me how much and I say 95k then you bring a buyer over to buy the car for 95k and I turn it down you would be made and never deal with me again. Technically the car was NEVER FOR SALE there was no consignment agreement or contract. You were just hoping for a sale. Similar to having a realitor approach a house that is already owned and asking people if they want to sell to the smith family who want to buy your house. If they give a number then back out how can you have any hard feelings the HOUSE WASN"T ORIGINALLY FOR SALE! Just my 2cents.
Erik
BTW I have been in the car business for 2 years and while not high end Dave's statement is right on the money IMHO.
PS forgive the spelling errors gotta run to 1pm class

 

Erik......

This is not meant as a shot....but a point to ponder for when/if you enter the business world and start dealing with 6 or 7 figure sums. Business agreements are merely written forms of the verbal ones hashed out beforehand.

In the case you mentioned the answer is yes.....I would never deal with you again if you broke your word and did not offer either verbal or financial compensation depending upon the situation. You will soon find out that your reputation for honesty and integrity as a person is the most important thing you carry with you in this world. All the degrees you've earned and money you may have won't mean squat if you are perceived (rightfully or wrongly) as anything else. To wit.....I raised $1MM in venture capital to start my business two years ago. Do you know what the overwhelming determining factor was that clinched the deal for me......? It wasn't the business plan......it wasn't my track record in sales.......it was the quality and number of first hand personal references that the VC received from people that I had dealt with over the preceeding 15 years who are much more wealthy and powerful than I will ever be.

If your word is worthless what does that make you ?

 

I don't take it as a shot but I can name 3 examples in 2 years in the car business where we wrote up the contracts and at the last minute the buyer backed out for reasons that don't need to be mentioned. But 2 of those ended up being sales later. In the car business or any service business you can't burn your bridges which I think you do from your posts. But you would turn down someone that did this to you when they wanted to use you to liquidate their collection? I doubt you would! If you can afford to throw away sales like that because you "would never deal with them again." How can you blame the owner for deciding to keep their car? Consider yourself lucky it hasn't happend yet. **** happens just because someone doesn't want to sell a car that was NEVER for sale doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a bunch. If there is anyone to blaim it is the broker IMHO for not making sure in this case the car would actually be sold for that amount. Again we don't know the basis of the conversations between the parties so we shouldn't speculate. Just as a buyer has to be qualified so does the seller IMO.
Erik
PS internet connections in class are great

 

I still agree with everything Dave said and think your methods while they might work for you would never survive on the "main line." People over here change their minds as much as normal people change socks! EVERYDAY!
Erik

 

You don't blame anyone for deciding to keep their car.......you blame them for breaking their word......written or otherwise.......and an entire industry has sprouted up to support that statement.......they are called lawyers.

It doesn't matter what the transaction is about.....it's about personal accountability and credibility. Nothing else. I choose who I deal with......everyone does.....some people just have different standards in that regard than I do......and in the long run......the higher your standards......the better off you are for it.......

This board is filled with a litany of threads complaining about our industry..........those individuals or companies whose ethical standards consist of readily breaking their word or lying do not stay around very long as a result.

Sometimes burning a bridge means that you can never go down the same path again.

 

I can't resist hopping in here with a question for Kds. While I can understand your point: you _absolutely_ do not want potential sellers 'jerking you around' and making you look foolish to potential buyers and ruining your credibility (I can imagine nothing is worse in your business than calling someone with "I have a dino" only to have to call them again and say "Erm... I don't), but I have to ask where you place customer service on your list of priorities.

Yours is no doubt a difficult business; one complicated by the fact that you're dealing not only with large sums of money, but also possessions that owners are emotionally attached to. (Labcars, my $0.02 here is that you've hit upon the best definition of value possible: what it means to you.) How do - or even do - you try to take that into account?

Which isn't to say that you should be a push-over. Absolutely not. You should continue to make it clear up front to prospective sellers that you mean business and that they might very well have to take a cab home. What strikes me from this thread is that you might do well in softening your approach, in trying to make the decision easy on them while remaining firm in your principles. It matters a lot that you're not a used car huckster and that your word, as they say, is your bond.

But consumer satisfaction matters, too. As you said "burning a bridge means that you can never go down the same path again." We should also remember that the number of bridges -- particularly in the exotic car segment -- is finite. Returning customers, I'd think, would be critical to any long-term vision of success - particularly in a small market.

 

I agree with you, this is why I think KDS contradicts himself IMHO.
Erik

 

I debated even entering this subject because it talks about a car dealer and honesty and integrity, I didn't know there were any of those. I am NOT and I repeat NOT attacking you KDS as I don't know you and you can be certain I will never buy a car or sell a car to you, so I AM NOT attacking you but when dealing with someone in your profession it is always safe to assume the dealer is lying and/or cheating you. So I would have no problem going back on my word because I would assume you would not have a problem going back on yours either, AGAIN I must state, I AM NOT attacking you, just how I deal with car dealers and if you are the exception, then I applaud you.

I also question how asking you "how much for my car?" and then walking away is going back on my word, its just a harmless question.

Having said, I would never deal with you anyway. I would have been out of your office before you finished your high pressure sales chat about me being prepared to leave my keys and take a taxi...in my book high pressure is a synonym for lying, untrustworthy and cheating. I don't care how badly I want what you sell, high pressure and I am out.

I am still debating if I should even press the "submit" button...

 

KDS. - I had forgotten the entire insurance matter. That is certainly not the issue, at all.

I can just imagine, if the KDS method spread to say, Algar Ferrari.

I walk in. "Good morning," I say.

"Wadda ya sellin?" says the sales manager.

I have a Dino 246GT, and was considering that 355 you have."

"Well, do you have CASH?? 'cause we only do cash deals here, and I only can give you ten minutes, 'cause I'm a busy guy. So, if you're not ready to buy, RIGHT NOW, would you mind stepping aside so I can finish my Espresso in peace!!!" Says the sales manager.

"But, I might want to trade my Dino, can you give me an idea of what that deal might look like?" I stutter..

"WHAT??? You want me to actually make you an offer?? You want me to do the work??? WHAT'S THAT CAR WORTH TO YOU? Knock off 25%, and that's what we'll give you, maybe, if you ask nicely and promise not to waste my time any more today. Oh, and do you have CASH?? We only do cash deals." Says the now aggravated sales manager.

"Gee, I thought I'd flesh out the deal a little, to see if the numbers worked for me...." I squeak.

"GET THE 'F' OUT OF MY SHOWROOM. YOU'RE NOT A BUYER, YOUR A WEASEL TIRE KICKER" COME BACK WITH CASH, WHEN YOU'RE READY TO BUY."


Now maybe I've taken this to an extreme, but your technique reeks of elitism and distrust, and I'm pretty sure if I was selling cars, even expensive cars, that unless I had a following of "thrity something" folks who were never gonna leave me, who made me enough money to get me to retrement, I'd take a little more open minded approach.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME. You sell 'em any way you want. I hope it continues to work for you.


DM

 

Funniest post of the year!!! I was picturing Rick or Francis saying that as I read your post
Erik

 

I was picturing Francis. Almost fell off of my chair laughing.

 

Can someone explain chairs and flairs to me. Ive been thinking about it for the last 10 minutes and cant figure it out.



PS. The sun was beating down right on the car when i took the picture, thats why the color is a little off.

 

at least you didn't have some ugly irish person in your picture! ... your picture is still beautiful even with the sun

 

Chairs refers to the daytona seat patterns on the seats. The flairs cars have about an extra inch of fender then is just out there. Easiest way to tell is to look at a pic of the front fender of les's car and then look at Dave's some people like the cleaner lines of a no flairs car. Also, very few cars left the factory with both of these options and lastly I believe the flaired cars had different wheels but Dave will chime in I am sure
Erik

 

Chairs and Flares was an option on 1972 (Series III) and later Dinos. It consisted of seats similar in appearance to those found in the Ferrari Daytona, wider wheelarches (wheelarch extensions) used to cover wider Campagnolo alloys.

Seats and wider wheelarches - 'chairs' and 'flares'

 

Excellent~!

 

Chairs means Daytona style leather seats (less decorative, vinyl ones were standard)

Flares means extended wheel arches that allowed wider tires.
I believe Tom S posted a while back that the rear wheels were wider than the fronts (8"/7.5" if I recall correctly...)

In summary, it means nearly all possible options - a highly desirable, fully loaded car
There were only about 125 Flares and Chairs cars delivered although many owners have since added these to make their car more "allegedly" desirable.

 

Too funny! I agree with Erik.

 

my 365 is also that same light blue, they call it Azzurro Hyperion in my case. Looks beautifull on the Dino too!!!!!!

Zac