I'll vouch for that. This guy uses his 360 for mundane things like going to the post office..........................one 40 miles away.
That prices is a PURE RIP OFF! I am willing to bet you can find it at a HUGE discount. Ferrari doesn't make anything electric. That I'm aware of anyway. There MUST be something else that uses the same pump. I just looked up the cost of a used 355 trans, $2,500 GBP. That is about $5k US. No fricken way I would pay $15K for an electric pump. That is just insane. Plus you can bet the damn thing will break again. Seriously think HARD about rebuilding it. Either that, or put in a manual trans. Look on the pump and see who makes it. Find any and all numbers on it that you can.
This sounds like the same thing a buddy of mine realized about his now ex-wife. Come to think of it, she was pretty expensive too.
So, how does a GT2 or 3 stack up, cost for parts speaking? When I had my Posha, I don't remember everything being all that cheap.
Now you know why so many Ferraris have very limited miles on them. You must be prepared to pay through the nose if you have the temerity to actually drive your car and wear some parts out!
Actually Kevin, if it is made by Denso and I had a part number, I might be able to get it given my connections (think TRD tach). I would need the Denso part number which would hopefully be found enscribed on the pump itself. Regards, Dusty
I guess the warranty I got for my 355 seems a little reasonably priced now!! Anyone know if the Power 2 warrant can be extended?
The pump assy is a rather elaborate piece of hydraulic equipment made by Magnetti Marelli and it a mystery to me how anyone who has so little familiarity with it can call it a ripoff. Since when did anything Ferrari related especially a part they designed and have a proprietary right to come cheap? Also how many have been built? How many have failed? I work on these cars every day and they are pretty damn reliable. The F1 system costs less to keep going on average than the motor in a 355 so what is all the paranoia about? I would also suggest some of you find someone with talent that can fix things rather than just throw parts at every malady.
There are lots of good people out there. Boston Sports Car is run by Ken McKay's kid. I bet he has all his stuff in one pile.
I'd agree with Brian on all this...he's preaching to the choir, with me..... Besides it's not a PART, it's an ASSEMBLY!!! LOL! The clutch pedal went soft on my Pontiac and they handed me the whole d@mn pedal sytem, preassembled! Master/slave cylinders, interconnecting tubing, and hydraulic fluid seeping from the bag, where it was prefilled! They showed me no love at the Cashier Station, either!
You can get 456 hoods for under $15k. Murcielago front bumpers are ~$15k. I'm surprised the 360C motor is more than the F40.
IIRC someone told me the regular 456 hood was CF and composites (prob kevlar), but was still really heavy.
Okay I have been doing some research. Afla Romeo came out with a sequential shifter name the "Selespeed". It came on the 156 and 147 models. This site describes the transmission http://www.selespeed.info/ Click on the technical details button to read about it. The Alfa Selespeed system sounds just like the 355 F1 system. Here is a link to a picture of how it works http://www.totally-cool.de/Fahrbares/Alfa/selespeed_01.jpg and another pic with a cut-out view of the trany http://www.toomonline.com/GearboxTechnology/AlfaRomeoSelespeed02.jpg It gets better The system is made by Magneti Marelli, we already knew that, and Magneti Marelli's parent company is FIAT. Here is were it gets good. Take from this site: http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/gearbox/tech_gear_manual.htm Alfa Romeo's Selespeed Parent company FIAT used to sponsor Ferrari's F1 program. During the past 20 years, the prancing horse did not won FIAT any title, no matter driver's or team championship. The first fruit is perhaps the Selespeed semi-automatic transmission, which was invented by the F1 team and converted for F355 F1 used. Now Ferrari rewarded its parent company with this technology, transferring Selespeed to Fiat's rising arm Alfa Romeo. This created the 156 Selespeed. Like the F355 F1's system, the Selespeed is a hydraulic actuator added to the normal manual gearbox and incorporates clever electronics. Instead of six-speed, the Alfa unit has 5 ratios like its conventional sisters. The operation is 90% the same as the Ferrari's, only shift smoother and slower. Gearshift is actuated by the two buttons located on the steering wheel (Ferrari use 2 paddles at the steering column). After pressing the button, the Magneti Marelli fuel injection and electronic throttle control will reduce the engine output, then actuate the clutch and then change gears by fast-acting hydraulic actuators. After that, clutch engages again and the engine resume power. The whole process normally takes 1 to 1.5 seconds, but it could be reduced to 0.7 sec when it is running in "Sport" mode. However, shift quality in Sport mode is not as good as normal mode. The computer select "Sport" mode automatically if the driver engage more than 60% of the throttle travel and shift at above 5,000 rpm. Alternatively, the driver can select "City" mode which simulates a fully automatic gearbox. Now I have found USED Alfa 156s for $3,000 GBP or about 6$k US. http://cars.yahoo.co.uk/results_100354123/Alfa_Romeo,Alfa_Romeo Now when an ENTIRE CAR with the SAME TRANSMISSION costs less than half of what Ferrari wants to charge for the fricken pump. YOUR DAMN RIGHT IT'S A RIP OFF!!!!!!! Because there is NO WAY a single pump can be more complicated than an ENTIRE CAR. You could by a WHOLE car with the SAME system and still have $10,000 change. I am willing to bet that you can even interchange the pumps, and maybe even other parts, of the Selespeed sytem. $16,000 for the pump/sytem is a RIP OFF. Pure and simple.
Ernie you are well intentioned but as I said before you have no direct knowledge of the system so you have no idea WTF you are talking about. The Alfa system is for a 5 speed, the Ferrari system is a 6 speed. The PUMP ASSEMBLY has all the valving incorporated in it and as such is a different part and is incapable of doing the job. If your argument is that Ferrari charges too much for their proprietary parts you are preaching to the chior. You are also forgetting some basics. The Selespeed system (they are ALL called that Ernie) was invented for F1 (very expensive) and was later modified and adopted to the 355, the first street car ever to have such a system (very new technology and still very low production, 1st generation development). All that, so far as any first year econ student will tell you leads to very high costs. The next generation systems as were in Alfas and 360's. In the second generation the cost for Ferrari as well as the retail price came down significantly. That 16k part has morfed through development and economy of scale to a 2-4k part in one generation. Ferrari's stated intention for the F1 system is to develop it to the point that it will replace the conventional automatic transmission. It will take several generations of development to get the costs down to the point at which it can compete. You are taking the very first step in that evolutionary and developmental process and slamming the cost. You are like the guy who has a Dell PC yelling at the guy who bought an IBM mainframe 25 years ago that he got ripped off.....Get real. Ernie you can buy a current color TV for under $100 dollars. Does that mean that the ones made in the late 50's were a rip off at the prices they got then? To suggest so would only prove how out of touch and cluless you are about manufacturing and economics. If you are suggesting we as professionals should go to any length to jury rig the cars to save you a few dollars on repairs let me suggest you switch your brand to Ford. That is not what my clients want nor is it the want of more than a very small and insignificant percentage of the Ferrari owners I have been exposed to in the 30+ years I have been in the business. Quite the contrary, that segment of the business has been the laughing stock of the rest of us and for good reason. I won't ever lower my self to that level and if that is the type of work desired I cordially invite you to stay the hell out of my shop.
The way to finding a reasonably priced part is to get one of the guys that knows Ferrari backwards and forwards to help you. It's absolutely necessary when prices climb so dramatically. Everything is cyclical. Pendelums swing. The prices will come down. In the meantime, it's worth shipping your car to Brian Crall or Dave Helms.
Well at least we are in agreement on that. Brian I'm not hear to insult your technical skill. I will be the first to admit that your mechanic experiance is greater than mine. My point is this. Even though Ferrari charges a certain price for the parts that doesn't mean that is what the part actually costs. There are many parts found on a Ferrari that are also on other makes of cars. Like $345 O2 sensors that can be bought for $56 from Pep Boys. Or $950 alternators that can be rebuilt for $300, and even rebuilt better. Yes the Alfa system and the Ferrari system are not exactly the same, but is it so far fetched to think there are parts that are interchangable? Like maybe the pump or a pressure valve, or some other part. You even said yourself, you have fixxed these systems before. So maybe, just maybe, a part from a 156/147 will work on a 355 f1 system. And maybe that part only costs $800 instead of $8000. That is my point.
I really don't know anything about parts interchangeability for Alfa/Fiat/Bosch versus Ferrari. But for a while it was possible to source some replacement Porsche parts from Volkswagen/Audi instead and there was a substantial price difference (maybe not 10x, but perhaps 2x). This was most likely with 924's (hence the complaint by Porsche fans that it was really an Audi). I don't think this is true of the newer cars though.
