Group Buy: 3x8 Throttle Body Mod + Plenum Mod

IME, The Fuel Distributor air door is admittedly quite restrictive, moreso than the TB without a doubt. That is one reason I tested the system in its entirety. To see what the flow was in real application.
The fact that the fuel distributor is a restrictive area is not news, as it relies on the variable opening to meter fuel. The harder the motor pulls down the door, the more fuel is metered.
One side benefit of the tests showed that the air filter housing, particularly the top, or lid, was even more restrictive,(both 2 and 4 valve) and the base in the 2 valve models as well.
Tests show that the 4 valve model housing, sans top, K&N element in place, flowed on par with a large velocity stack (holley model, adapted to fit fuel distribnutor), while the tilted element 2 valve version really choked the flow. Inspection showed the stock 2 valve filter housing was by design a very restrictive unit, causing loss of flow in itself, not the Bosch distributor.
Kermit

 

matt frist proof to us with a dyno test on the 2 valve and the 4 valve motors the increace in HP AND TQ and then we will be intresting to do the throttle body and plenum Mod and pay you the $$ with out that it means nothing.

 

Mr Morgan continues to promote his products in a manner that back doors sponsorship of FC. He cannot produce any data (dyno's or flowcharts) that support any of his "testing".
Be forwarned about doing business with him or his company.

 

there is no way i will pay Mr Morgan money if he can not produce any data that support his testing. all i can say to Mr matt Morgan is proof it.

 

Ria -

Mike Charness and I will have the data for you and everyone else soon. We both have 84 308s but mine has the TB/intake mod. We are going to test them both.

Mike - I am free any Fri afternoon/weekend from here on. Just email me the best time for me to drive up.

 

Would you let us know how you came to have this TB/intake mod, was it free or did you pay for it?

Your test is going to compare two different cars? One with the Mod and one without? I hope that is not the plan.

 

dr cosgrove are you going to pay for the dyno test? the one that needs to do any dyno testing is matt morgan and post the data.

 

looking fwd to the test results. If conclusive and not "vaporware", I'm interested.

 

The plan is to run Mike's car as is then pull my tb/intake, put it on his car and run it again. So, the same car.

 

Gentlemen,
I shared my input on this topic in the spirit of exchanging information, that the group as a whole would be better informed on the topic. Nowhere in my posts do I mention anything commercial in this matter.
For those who wish actual flowbench data, I would suggest you take a Fuel Distributor, and TB to your local shop that is capable of testing, and get the hard numbers there.
I have been happy to share comparative results, but as we all know flow bench sheets are easily doctored, as ae dyno printouts. With this in mind, if I were considering a purchase, I would be much more impressed with dyno results posted by well established members than from the manufacture itself.as they do not have a profit motive.
Rather than pick the fly crap out of the pepper, I would be glad to see someone note the air filter restriction I mentioned, and do something constructive in this area.

 

I frankly am quite surprised at some of the responses here. Some want stock, some want modified, some want more power, some want some wild ass creation that takes so much away from what the car was I question why they even own the thing. At any rate, I keep hearing all this BS about how the engineers at Maranello this, or how the engineers at Marenello that. I have heard how crappy the cars are built, made out of crap, ****ty welds, poor castings, whatever, enough to fill volumes of books and there ARE volumes of books.

But while I hear how so much better made a Mercedes is, I have owned 5 of them. I am friends with people at the MB dealership, my nephew had a job there for a while. I did a lot of heavy mechanical work on them, and currently have a 1983 380 roadster sitting alongside my 308. The 308 is up on jackstands. The engine and gearbox are out and totally apart, the radiator is out, and all the suspension is off. The only ****ty weld on that car is the bracket for the charcoal cannister. Probably made them mad to have to attach that worthless pos to thier lil car. The car is built like a brick outhouse, and I see NO bad welding. Its all high quality first class stuff. Maybe a lil oddball with that goofy window lift system, but still well made. The places where the car fails in those places were governments dictated how they had to build a car. I highly doubt the "engineers" at Maranello, gave a rats butt how precision they were when they put that CIS garbage on thier engine and made it blow through catalytic convertors. It ran, and that was good enough.

But I have also found, that they built in defaults regarding the engine. The block is to tall, by about .055" on all the US 308 motors up through the QV, so it does not make anywhere near its rated compression of 8.8. Its more like 7.2! The ports dont match, the exhaust is out of alignment, and in the case of the CIS cars, flat cams with rediculous valve timing. The first time I seen a picture of a CIS engine, with that stupid little hose sticking out the back of the plenum, I shook my head. Regarding the 255 HP rating of the early 308, I think it will make that power with the motor blueprinted, making spec compression and port matched. Any of you who think Ferrari were trying to make HP with that BS CIS junk really dont know much about engines, IMO. I dont know what boring out the throttle body will do for power, but telling anyone not to do it, because they "think" its a waste of time or money, with no proof either way, is just wrong.

 

Tommy,

How about an answer to the 1st Question?

 

this is getting to be almost as touchy a subject as that 308 engine mod thread...

 

I don't think this is a hostile thread at all. There's only been one person on the thread that's been snotty about this mod (except, of course, for Paul's ongoing baiting). Everyone else seems to have a 'show me' attitude. If this thing proves out, then I think that there will be more sales.

 

Mr. Morgan,

If you wish to share information about your "testing" that you claim to so thoroughly done then for once in your life back it up with some data.

And to say you there is nothing commercial in this is fraudulent, you produce the product that you are now stating makes improvement in the 308 in a thread about that modification.

Why the moderators allow this is beyond me…..oh the moderator is the one now testing your products for you……isn’t that interesting and another moderator sent you his BMW head, and we know what will happen if he annoys you now????

I will again warn all that do business with Mr. Morgan to beware….Read the TRUE story of Mr. Morgans latest customer who delivered a perfectly running 308 from NY to Morgans shop in WA. (The customer asked my assistance in getting his car back as I was more then willing to testify to Mr. Morgan past behavior with damaging a customers engine).



Mr. Morgan,

Why don’t you tell everyone how your last customer (2 month) ago had to get a court order to get his car (ferrari 308) out of your shop, and when he did get his car ….after you hid it when the court order was issued was totally destroyed by you….in fact so destroyed (the engine was fried and every body panel was damaged) that the customers insurance company wrote it off. This was a car that was delivered to you in perfect running order to be modified. Don’t forget the part about how you put the title of the car in your name after the customer had paid you in advance and how you wanted a $7000 storage fee even though you destroyed the engine and the car as a whole. The court ordered you to immediately release the car with no storage fee.

The State of Washinton has no Consumer Protection Laws for the protection of those doing business with an operation like Mr. Morgans and so you will have no choice but to hire an attorney when Morgan does what he does best.

 

Of course I paid for it (I thought that was understood).

 

WOW

 

yeah, my thoughts too doc....

 

I have made my feelings known several times before. I think this baiting is a bunch of hoowie. Matt didnt come in here promoting his product, he has not even really attempted to argue its value. But, Mr Sloan will once again sling a lot of mud, and destroy yet again an interesting subject with garbage that has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING being discussed, and with nothing of any real value to back it up, nor add to this subject, either one. Mr Sloans only reason for posting in this thread is solely to attack another member. No amount of arguing will ever end this BS until one of these guys is banned permanently. Personally, I think allowing people to make repeated personal attacks, with no real good support for thier argument, is a bad thing. Pray tell me what this adds to our learning or understanding!

Of all I have seen or read in all of my time on Fchat, I have seen no one as caustic and full of hatred for another, as Mr Sloan. What a pity.

 

Repeated??????
The TRUE story is brand new, never told before.
I will be posting the courts order (Public Record) after the holiday.


This adds to the understanding that the Buyer should be forewarned of someone Masquerading as a Knowledgeable source....your Pity is not required.

 

Paul "sloanqv"

unless your posts have a proven factual basis i.e. you have secured a legal judgement on the mater in your favour, please take your issues with "kermit" off line.
If you are in the process of obtaining a legal judgement please post once, that you are proceding with this as a legal matter and leave it until you do secure a judgement
I can understand your frustration but an open forum isnt the place to continualy bring it up, and claiming the moderators are being bribed does you absolutley no favours

If you do continue you will earn yourself a ban

 

So can we now return to a thoughtful and enlightening discussion?

 

Beautiful…finally we’ll have an answer.

The only thing I can thing of that would make the test more interesting is wagering….we need a pool. I’ll put $10 on a 4hp increase to get the ball rolling.