interesting possible criminal activity

dealer is in big doo doo. title must be clear and the car put in dealer inventory and the inventory tax calculated. out of state sale and tax / title issue are federal jurisdiction. the burden will be on the dealer and the lender who was supposed to have secured the title as collateral for the loan to be valid.
all the crap i went through with individuals having to finance the 308's leads me to believe that Chase dropped the ball also. the finance companies of 2 particular buyers drove me nuts with all thier verification forms. faxes and bills of sale. i told them all to go to hell. if you dont have cash. dont buy the cars. i am a private collector, not a dealer.
back on topic, i would think that the lender will have to uphold the loan and the dealer will have to file with BOTH STATES to get the title issue clear. i dont see how you can loose, as the dealer and the bank will have to eat your expenses if the loan is declared invalid.

MAKE SURE THEY DONT SCREW WITH YOUR CREDIT. get all conversations and agreements / ammendments in writing. dont agree to anything " on the phone".

best of luck to you. shame on the dealer and Chase.

 

Not a lawyer, but if you don't have the title, you and Chase do not own the car. Also, if the dealer bought the car without the title, they are also out of the money and don't have a car to sell if it turns out the car was stolen.

Furthermore, I think you are on the hook for the loan amount with Chase regardless of the ownership situation and will be out the 8K you spent on the car if in fact the care was stolen.

Your best hope is the dealer will make it right for you, but you may be in some deep dodo if the proper paperwork does not catch up with the transactions

MB

 

With previously owned exotics, getting the paper (clean title) is equally as important as getting the car. In California, we call it, "Breach of warranty of title."


Dino

 

Please make no mistake. This is a serious situation. Get input from this board, but also get lawyers involved right away.

 

when you're buying a car from a dealer or more importanly a private seller how can you varify that they do infact own it and there's no lean on it?

Do you check with the BMV or need police varification or what?

 

I really don't know anything about the technicalities and legalities of a situation like this, but I know what I would do first thing tomorrow - I would hide the car. At present, at least you have the car in your possession. What happens if a tow truck shows up with some kind of paper and removes the car? Then you gots nuthin'.

Take it to a friends house and stash it in his garage. Rent a 10 x 20 storage unit for a month and stash it. Anything. But hide it, and don't tell anyone where it is until this is straightened out and the title is in your name.

Good luck.

 

HIRE A LAWYER!! And if you do "hide" the car, don't even think about not telling the bank / a judge / the car seller if they ask about it. . .

Good Luck with this bad situation, hope it works out without too much hassle

 

Now wait a minute here. I dont know how different all states work, but I went through something simularly with a truck I bought from a dealer. They apparently had it through a repo, and didnt have a title. But because they wrote a contract, and gave me a copy of an invoice (I paid cash) the state said all I had to do is show them an invoice and I would be issued a title and plates. They would deal with the title issue with the dealer, and I didnt need to do anything. I dont think you need a lawyer, I think you need to talk to someone at the state, as well as someone at Chase, and let Chase know you will not be making any more payments, nor surrendering the car, until this issue is resolved. This is why Dealers have to post bonds with the state. And I would call the dealer and simply tell them to get off thier ass or you are going to make a big scene. I would get a lawyer involved only if I was unable to resolve it myself.

On this truck, I told the dealer I was tired of waiting, and to get this figured out or I was taking the sales invoice to DMV and would get the ball rolling. Two weeks later I had a title and a new set of plates.

In another event, we traded a 300E at a MB dealer. Some months later, calls start coming from police and sheriffs dept's around the state, asking about this car we owned. Car was once found abandoned on the freeway in one instance, and later involved in a hit and run in another incident, plus numerous unpaid parking fines. The purchasing dealer never transfered the title when they sold it. Made quite an embarresment for our dealer. But again, the title could have been "force transfered" by the state, and thats probably how that was solved.

 

so whats plates have been on the car if you've done 3500 miles, and the car didn't come with any, surely there should have been something to hand in?

 

I was going t say the same thing....

 

Anyone have Carfax that can check out the VIN to see if it has been reported stolen??? I would think the dealer gave the buyer temporary tags and renewals every 30 days. I had four of them on a Mazda I bought in college.
BT

 

ALWAYS ASK FOR A FAX OR DIGITAL PIC OF THE FRONT AND BACK OF THE TITLE . most of the cars i play with are too old to Carfax. most private sellers own the cars outright. if they have to pay off a lein to sell you the car i would run away unless they take legal steps to assure you they are not a scammer. the title is the car as far as the insurance company and banks are concerned. this is a problem in some states. Georgia for example does not require titles for cars older than 1986. to make it worse, the folks at the DMV will argue with you and try to "save" you the $18 title fee when you ask to apply for one. the reason is older cars and exotics have to have the titles manually typed out and that costs them more labor time. the early vin numbers also have to be entered manually as the computers are programmed to work with the newer ( 1980 and up?) 17 digit vin number.

i just dont see how he would be liable for the loan if the car is stolen or has a lost title. the burden is on the dealer and on Chase for lending the funds on a "unsecured" vehicle. the loan officer is the one thats going to be in deep Poo. i would at least talk to the DMV and make the dealer pay for any fees levied by the state. if the car is stolen and its just a lost title issue, i guess that is a Grand theft Auto / Federal issue that will require a lawyer.

i do not think that hiding the car is a good idea. but i would not allow it to be taken unless a judge issued a bench warrant for siezure of property.

 

First and most important thing is to contact dmv, which you've obviously already done. Most states, and FL for sure, allow a dealer 30 days to transfer title (as previously mentioned) - dmv is usually the entity that has to 'force' the issue but if you get them on it, they usually scare the dealer enough to get things rolling. In addition, since you financed through Chase, contact them immediately and see what they suggest - being as they technically own the car, they will be the ones who have to push (and having dealt with Chase in the past, if they haven't had a title for months, I'm shocked that you haven't heard about it...I'm wondering if maybe the dealer didn't send Chase the title to be processed, otherwise I can almost guarantee Chase would have been beating down both the dealer and your door - they do not wait patiently for titles) for any fixing of the situation. Once you talk to Chase and find out what dmv suggests, report back and that should give a better idea what to do from there.

 

It shouldn't cost much to find out what your rights and liabilities are, and it's probably worth it given the value of your car. Beyond that, your attorney should be able to outline some options for enforcing your rights and protecting your interests, and estimate the cost of each alternative.

Best of luck.

 

I assume this is a franchised BMW dealer. If so, I start by contacting BMW's regional rep. Run a carfax (costs $15). Typically, it won't have transactions from the last 6 months on it, but may have relevant data. Next, ask the dealer to show you the title. Even if there is a problem, thye shuld have it in hand? Tell Chase about it if you have not already. Last, talk to a lawyer.

Dave

 

Most states have consumer fraud statutes that would cover something like this. They usually provide for double to triple damages, plus attorneys' fees. So there is no reason that you shouldn't contact a lawyer immediately. If the dealer is unwilling or unable to straighten out the title IMMEDIATELY, then get thyself to a lawyer. There is also no reason why you should be running around trying to deal with getting clear title. The dealer is responsible for doing it. Hold their feet to the fire. And if title isn't clear or if it turns out to be salvage title, etc., sue their a$$es. Don't let the dealer get its hands on the car until you've talked to your lawyer.

 

I don't think your are Liable for anything in this situation. You may be on the hook for the 8k in work you put into the car..But this is a dealership screw-up and the finance screw up..NOT your screw up. They should have had all this stuff worked out before the car even went up for sale. If they cannot come up with the correct tile to the car..Leagaly they would have to give you back your money in full and cover all costs, in realtion to the vehical purchase. You bought the car ligit from a dealer, with a bill of sale and propper financing..You're in the clear as far as I can see...The dealer, DMV, previous owner, and the finance company should be battling this out. All you did was buy a car. The rest of it is on them to make sure everything is in order.

 

Post #2 is correct, the dealer is in really big doo-doo. Very likely they're feeding you a line of crap and there is actually a title paperwork problem with the car. 99% of the time I've seen this in the car business it's a case of a financial institution losing title paperwork including the title itself (Chase Manhatten is famous for this within the industry).

Just ask the dealership should be able to file a something called a lost title application on your behalf to expedite the process using the documentation they had signed when the picked up the car from the previous owner. However, if they tell you they can't or won't for any reason THEN YOU HAVE A VERY, VERY REAL PROBLEM MY FRIEND! Even the most reputable dealers make catastrophic mistakes once every year or two if they deal in enough volume.

Find the previous owner of record and talk to them directly, ask them when their note was paid, call their bank to verify, etc. And for God's sake don't hide the car, I've seen before how your problems could grow very rapidly beyond the financial if you try this tactic!

 

First of all the dealer wants to get you your title quickly so that they can get paid by Chase. Remember the dealer gets no payment from the finance company until they perfect a lien in the favor of Chase.I would bet that the title still has an old lien and the dealer title clerk is having a hard time getting it removed. That said, the dealer had posted a bond with the state and this will protect you if everything turns for the worse. For now I would calm down and see how the dealer's title office responds to a letter from a lawyer. By the way am I correct in understanding that the selling dealer did not provide you with temporary registration?

 

Yea, hand them the paper "dealer tag"!!!!!

j/k..........

 

I am a lawyer and I stayed in a Holiday inn Express last night. The DLR does not get paid until he provides title to the finance company so I am willing to bet, he wants to get it done also.

Its common for dealers to sell cars they do not have the titles too. Example: DLR take 355 in trade for new BMW, 355 has a existing title with a lien in GUAM. Now the car is on the lot the dealer doesn't want to sit on that money (floorplan) doing nothing so he sells the car. Like I said common.

Now the title is with the Bank of Guam, they need payoff before they release the title. DLR sends a check, Bank of Guam processes it a 2 months later (island time) the title shows up at BMW, only to find that Uncle Masa's name is on the title with the kid who traded it in. Now BMW has to find Uncle Masa get him to sign a Power of attorney and a bill of sale to release as registered owners from DMV to transfer it into the new owners name.

I would not get too excited about your situation is sounds common. However, I would contact the title clerk at the dealership to find out what is really going on. Sales people could care less, your last months commision. Find out what the real problem is, IE who needs to sign the bill of sale and where are they? or whatever the problem is.

You have a purchase order from the dealer they are obligated to provide title that is a binding contract, they can issue temporary paper license plates un-till title is transferred so you can drive your car.

Also if your really interested, you could run it down from the previous owner, DMV can tell the current registered owner by vin number. If you can get that information you can contact the previous owner and find out what the problem is. Usually this is the delay, because the previous owner has no interested in completing this task.


Save your $300 for legal counsel they will come thru. Dont talk to the sales person they dont know anything, talk to the Title clerk, Used car manager and General manager if necessary.

This legal advice is worth what you paid for it.

 

Hmmm... 16 years California litigation atty and I bought 1 Lotus Espirit from a L.A. dealer that was determined to be stolen.... after the sale. The dealer was clean & did not know, nor did I.....

Here are my thoughts & recommendations:

1. Chase, the lender, is not liable in my view. Assuming the title and dealer transfer paperwork are in order, I do not see the lender having any independent obligation to verify the accuracy of the title. Prepare to make your payments to Chase, as you sort through this debacle.

2. The dealer, is clearly liable. See my comments above, "Breach of warranty of title." In other words, when the dealer took your money and gave you the car, they impliedly "warrant" that they truly own it (or their assignor) and have the sole right to sell & transfer it.

My recommendation would be to ask for the liability carrier information of the dealer (the insurance carrier and the policy number) and promptly make a written claim directly to the dealer's insurance carrier. Also, as advised, retain local counsel. Avoid hiding the car. If it is stolen or not transferrable (in California) the car goes back to the legal owner and the "buyer" has an action for money damages (purchase price and atty fees, IF provided for in the purchase contract.)

best regards,
Dino

 

You did not indicate the state in which this transaction occurred.

Calif allows a dealer 90 (ninety) days to register the car and to pay all fees and taxes that were collected from the buyer.

It is also possible the vehicle was a lease vehicle and the lease company may have authorized the transaction but has not yet received full payment from the BMW dealer, and this happens frequently.

If the BMW had the "title" to pass to you, you are covered. Otherwise, as Dino states, there are multiple warranty breaches by the dealer. I find it difficult that this is the case, however.

As a note, forget the BBB. They are an absolute waste of time, and their ratings have no value. They will take any "claim" w/o verifying it prior to mailing letters. They are a job haven for those who can't get decent jobs anywhere else!

I doubt a BMW dealer has had a history of problems as you state their rating is with the local BBB.

Also, Chase would not have financed that car if there were a title problem.