355- what is required of "30K" service if done due to time vs. mileage | FerrariChat

355- what is required of "30K" service if done due to time vs. mileage

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by andrew911, Jan 1, 2006.

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  1. andrew911

    andrew911 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 8, 2003
    2,894
    Northern NJ
    I'm looking at a car that had the "30K service", or in this case the second engine out service (car has under 14K miles). An independant completed the service, and as far as I can tell they dropped the engine and changed the timing and other belts, changed the spark plugs and the fluids and put it back.

    They didn't replace the roller bearings/pully, tightner, or thermostat as far as I can tell, all of which were things done on another car I saw that had the "30K service" done by a Ferrari dealer. That car had under 8K miles! (obviously it was also the more expensive car)

    Anyway, my questions is what is actually needed for the "30K service" if it's simply a second engine out service for a 355? Do the bearings/tightners etc. actually have to be changed as a function of time or mileage? I assume (or hope) that the shop in the first case at least checked these items, but figured they were in good shape and left them. Is it possible the Ferrari dealers just change these parts since it's the second engine out service whether or not they are actually needed?

    Thanks-
    Andrew
     
  2. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
    867
    Donington Park
    Full Name:
    Richard C
    I had full service a few months ago (cambelts etc) and the guys just checked everything and anything that looked/felt like it MAY need changing they changed. In the end I only needed a tensioner bearing and water pump bearing kit.

    I would imagine they dont need replacing every service but the question is do you trust the service guys to have checked everything!
     
  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,609
    Gates Mills, Ohio
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    Jon
    Andrew, I just bought a 328 due for its 30K and asked similar questions, but I'm relatively new to this and will defer to the more technically savvy guys here...

    The tensioner bearings are changed during the belt replacement, because a broken belt is only one of the things you want to avoid through preventative maintenance. If there is any play (or 'slop') in a bearing, that could let the belt jump, with bad results.

    The compelling reason on a 355, in addition, is that the cost to replace the bearings is minor compared to the labor involved to remove the engine. The odds of a bearing failing in 8K miles (or less - if they were replaced once already) probably aren't large, but if one of them should show any deterioration in the next couple of thousand miles, I believe you'd have to pay for another engine out service just to get at it.

    (I don't know about the thermostat...)
     
  4. mark328

    mark328 Guest

    Jul 30, 2005
    664
    Mi
    Full Name:
    Mark
    When I checked with the dealer in reference to having service done on my 328 they informed me that they will only do a complete 30k service and will replace everything no matter how many miles since the last service because it was over 5 years. The only parts that they would inspect were the water pump, clutch, brakes and tires. I don't understand why such a great car needs a rebuild every 5 years even if you only put 3,000 miles on it during that time.
     
  5. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
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    Dec 23, 2002
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    Tony H
  6. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,038
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    355 service..should include the following
    New timing belts
    2 new tensioner bearings. These are very costly to replace. Some people elect to change them every second service. If yours have not been changed i would do so at this point.
    2 new tensioners..these have a bit of a tendancey to leak and should be inspected closely.
    Cam seals and o-rings
    cam cover gasket kit
    clutch inspection
    fluids replaced
    hoses replaced which need it
    water pump inspected. I have only ever replaced one 355 water pump due to leakage. Its quite a robust unit.
    Accessory belts replaced
    Alternator belt tensioner bearing..very common to fly apart.
    Inspection of the cats and other exhaust system components
    Clean an detail engine while its out
    replace spark-plugs, fuel filters, air filters and anything else that may need attention.

    There are other little things, but this is basicly what it is.
     
  7. southerncharm

    southerncharm Karting

    Dec 21, 2005
    50
    It is a game of chicken, do you blink to avoid the potential $12,000 repair bill if a belt breaks? The repair hysteria is making Ferrari dealerships a lot of revenue, far more than new car sale profit margins. In Ferrariland a few people a year experience a belt failure, these instances are used as justification for the maintaince. If you look at the larger picture, ask yourself what percentage of Ferraris that went over the specified time limits experienced a belt failure? I do not know what the aforementioned percentage is, nor does anyone else.

    If you take a decade as your time table, you would be looking at three $6,000 services, or $18,000. It could very well be cheaper to skip the services and come up with the $12,000 when needed. There is a chance that a once a decade service would not lead to a major failure, thus saving you 66%. Each of us has to define our risk tolerence. I am due for a belt change this spring, the mileage does not dictate the change, only the Ferrari maintence calendar insists it need be done. I am undecided at this time and I am leaning towards giving it another year (perhaps 1,500 more miles).
     
  8. Joe G.

    Joe G. Formula 3
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    Dec 9, 2003
    1,109
    Los Angeles
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    Joe Gazzani
  9. mark328

    mark328 Guest

    Jul 30, 2005
    664
    Mi
    Full Name:
    Mark
  10. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,599
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    If you really want to flame this thread, suggest that the service can be done on a 355 with the engine IN.
     
  11. andrew911

    andrew911 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 8, 2003
    2,894
    Northern NJ
    Thank you all for your replies...after seeing what a proper 30K entails, plus the attached thread which detailed the work (I think I saw that thread back in '04, but didn't come up when I did a search for 30K service before posting), I believe the car I'm looking at did not have this work done. To buy the car would a little bit of a gamble- can the tensioners etc. last until the next 5-year service?

    Guess if the lack of a proper 30K service is factored into the price it'd be OK as a buy (the physical condition of the car looks to be 100% in the pictures I've been sent- except some minor bubbles on the HVAC), but at this point I'll give it some time and see how much they will move.

    I'd much rather buy a car for the same price which has had these things addressed plus maybe the manifolds somewhere in the history....and a strong compression/leak down result for the valve guide issue of course, but we'll see.

    Man, there are so many things to be careful of with these 355s... wish I could stretch another $20K to the 360, but that would be a coupe not a convertible which is what I'm looking at with the 355. Ensuring the top works OK is another whole set of checklists...the car I'm looking at supposidly had a repair done and top operation is OK now.

    Anyway, thanks for the info on a proper service.
     

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