Do aftermarket brake pads have the SAME "U" shaped channel for the brake pad sensors on the front inside pads? Porterfield R4S AP345? Axxis Deluxe Plus 0608? EBC greenstuffs 2612? If I break a sensor when changing the pads to aftermarket, what are my options? I know the wire does not go directly into the pad, it goes into the sensor and attaches into the "U" shape in the pad. Thanks in advance for your answers. Jeff
I know the Porterfield R4S do, thats what I used. If you break the sensors your kinda screwed, spray them with WD40 1st and good luck, they are VERY brittle and break easily.
Jeff yes all aftermarket pads should also have the cut out, if you need to replace the sensors you'll find their the same as a 911 (964 & 993)
Andrew, Here are photos of the Ferrari and Porsche brake pad sensors. The Ferrari design has one sensor, the Porsche has two. Also, the plug in connections are different. What's the deal? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jeff I'll get the actual part number for you tomorrow. The pad sensors I've used are from a 964/5 Turbo. There all just brembo bits (and you'll notice your both pads in your pic have the cut out)
Andrew, Thanks. I would appreciate the part numbers. If the Porsche sensor has two per wire, I could put one on the inboard pad and one on the outboard pad, I guess. I assume that is what Porsche does. The Ferrari just has the sensor on the inboard pad. The photos are acutally of a 348, but I am told that the F355 is the same and uses the same pads. If the "plug" connector on the other end is different, I guess I could just "jerry rig" something. It would be nice to be able to get the correct sensor without having to use Ferrari OEM pads. Jeff
Jeff, I would not put the Axxis Deluxe Plus in the same league as the EBC or Porterfield pads (though I actually have no direct experience with the EBC). I would say that the Axxis Ultimate, would be a closer match in performance.
I found this on eBay, the end looks like the same as is on my 355 sensors, and its only one wire with a lot of extra wire. A solder gun and some heat shrink tubing and you're home free. I'm going to check BMW sensors out tomorrow at the shop. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rear-Brake-Pad-Sensor-BMW-323-325-328-330-i-ci-xi-E46_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33569QQitemZ8024519917QQrdZ1QQtcZphoto#ebayphotohosting
UPDATE: Just so there's no confusion, I bought the sensors listed above to see if they would fit a Porterfield backing plate. The bad news? They do not fit. The clip is too narrow to get over the plate without excessive force -- thus likely breaking the clip. The good news? I spent my R&D money on it so you wouldn't have to! I'll keep looking, because obviously we all need a good replacement solution. Buying OEM Brembo pads @ $400/side isn't reasonable.
Thank you Daniel for going to the trouble, nothing like other people misinforming others about things they say work, that DONT.
Daniel, My '95 F355 inner front brake pads didn't have the wear sensor that goes into the "U" channel. They were the original factory "Textar 400" pads, and the brake "sensor" was just a wire embedded into the pad material itself! (see photo) I took the Porterfield RS 4 pads that I got from you and drilled a small hole in the same location and epoxied in the sensor wire. Piece of cake. Jeff Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jeff - Something doesn't add up. Are you sure those were the original Ferrari pads? It seems unlikely the anti-squeal pad would be so misfit, and strange that a wear sensor wasn't properly fitted to the u-shaped channel. There's plenty of meat on those old pads -- how many miles are on your car? I'm not suggesting you continue to use the old pads, but I'm just a bit curious if those really are the original ones. I'd expect them to say "Galfer" on the backing plate. Any of the experienced techs on line today? Thoughts? -Daniel
I miced the BMW sensors against an original Ferrari sensor and they appear to be the same. I remember having to hit the Porterfield pads with the belt sander because they were a bit too long to fit the calipers. It might be that the Porterfield backing plate is a bit thicker than the Ferrari backing plate. Unfortunately I threw away my old Porterfield and Ferrari pads in a spring house cleaning last summer so I cant measure them. Anyone with a set of each could easily verify the backing plate thickness. If the Porterfields are in fact thicker its small work to reduce the thickness in that area.
The Porterfields fit absolutely PERFECT, I have done 2 355's in the past 2 months, they do NOT need to be sanded in any way. Just make sure the calipers have been compressed and the rails are clean, they nearly fall into place.
Maybe I should explain, I only had to hit one pad out of eight. I have twenty five years of auto repair shop owner experiance, and more than that of road racing experiance where I maintain my own cars. In short I have been doing this for a long time. When I say a pad doesn't fit without trimming the edge that's exactly what I mean.
Backing plate thickness on the original "galfer" pads just removed from my car measures a smidgen over 5mm (5.18mm to be precise). That's just over 0.2 inches. I replaced them with Ferodo DS2500 and the wear sensor fits perfectly. Ric.
Cool, now if someone could measure a Porterfield pad we might have an answer. Note to self: don't throw stuff away,............. ever
Daniel, The backing plate on the pad I removed, which I think are the original pads read: "Textar T400 FF". The owner's manual calls for the "Textar" pad, so I am assuming it was original. I suppose the original pads could have been replaced with other factory pads. They was quite a bit of "meat" left on those pads. My car has 17,000 miles, and frankly, I expecting the pads to be worn down further. What do you make of the sensor wire being embedded in the edge of the pad rather than having the little "module" that fits in the "U" Channel in the middle of the pad? Also, I don't know what to make of that "anti squeek" backing piece that were on the pads, that didn't go all the way across the backing plate of the pad. Maybe some "hack" installed a second set of factory pads with ill-fitting anti-squeek backing pieces? and maybe he drilled the pad and stuck in the sensor wire? Who knows? Anyway, the Porterfields are installed, I have RE-BLED the brakes, now that I know you need to have the key on and let the ABS pump keep cycling. I wasn't getting any brake fluid out of the bleeder screws the first time, except for the very first screw. I guess this relieved all the pressure in the system, and even with someone pushing the brake pedal, nothing was coming out of the others. Now, my problem.......My BRAKE WARNING light is STILL ON and won't go off. I have good braking......I have driven all over and done some hard and soft braking..........no squeeking !!!!! But I want that damn BRAKE LIGHT to go off. The manual says that this light will come on if you have either 1. Low brake fluid level (Which I don't) or 2. There isn't enough pressure in the system. It seems to work fine. One thing I noticed when bleeding.......I bled a total of about a cup or a little more of fluid when doing the bleeding, but the master reservoir didn't seem to go down hardly at all? Don't know what that means! I added some, but it didn't seem to need it......it was up at the MAX level mark. Also, I was thinking that maybe what I did with the wear sensor wire......drilling and embedding it in the edge of the brake pad material might be making my BRAKE WARNING light stay on.........but this is how the sensor wires were in the pads I took out, and I had no BRAKE WARNING light then. Also, the manual says that the PARKING BRAKE WARNING light would be the light that comes on if the wear sensor "activates" anyway. Could the manual be wrong????? (a possibility), but I am guessing that the brake pad sensor circuit is normally "open", and to close it, the sensor wiring needs to contact the rotor once the pad wears down far enough for this to happen. Is this correct thinking? Any thoughts or HELP???? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well with far less than your 25 years experiance I'm more impressed how I keep fitting these pads without trimming them in anyway, when I say the pads don't have to be trimmed thats exactly what I mean. 1 pad out of eight sounds like a dirty guideway, not enough for you to be telling people to trim thier brand new pads.
For what its worth, I always clean the caliper guideway with brake-kleen, and a wire brush. As I said, I've been doing this for awhile And exactly where did I tell anyone they had to trim their pads! All I said was I had to trim one pad out of eight, in fact I have used twelve Porterfield pads so far and only one had enough roughness on the edge to require sanding. If I can't relate my experiances then what good is this board anyway. I'm only trying to help gather information about a replacement sensor. I really don't appreciate your snipping comments That's all I will have to say on the subject of brake pad sensors, I'm outa here!!!!!!!!!!
In you earlier post you said "I remember having to hit the Porterfield pads with the belt sander because they were a bit too long to fit the calipers" To me that sounded like you suggest others should follow your procedures for install Porterfields will all your 25 years expericance. Snipping comments? try this quote from you "When I say a pad doesn't fit without trimming the edge that's exactly what I mean." Thats what I call a snipping comment, have a nice day, thanks for all your advice.....
Jeff, surely it can't hurt to deliberately ground one of your bare wire pad sensors to see if your "Parking Brake" warning light comes on in addition to your "Brake" warning light. That test would give you some peace of mind about your sensor, I'd guess.
Reply to "NO DOUBT"..........that is exactly what I just did! Here's what I found: I removed the left front wheel. Turned on the key, so that my BREAK WARNING light would light up. (At this point, still wondering if I bled the brakes wrong, etc.). I unplugged the break sensor, stuck a copper wire in the sensor wire plug fitting and grounded it to the rotor. Then I stuck my head in the driver's window and expected to see the PARKING BRAKE warning light to be on, as per the owner's manual. No PARKING BRAKE warning light! Those Bastards! The owner's manual is wrong! Anyway, guess what happened when I removed the copper wire from the rotor?...........NO MORE BRAKE WARNING LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! WOO HOOO!!!!!!!!! The whole time I thought I had done something wrong when I changed the pads and bled the brakes...........but what really happened is that the sensor wire which I had embedded in the brake pad material was evidently making contact with the backing plate of the pad, and hence, grounding in out and completing the circuit. (The one I embedded on the front right didn't do this by the way, or I still wouldn't have known what the problem was). Anyway, I pulled both sensor wires out of the brake pad material and unplugged and removed them. I figure I'll just check the pad wear every so often. I figure what happened was that my pads had been changed before I bought the car (with another set of Factory "Textar 400" pads, but the hack didn't replace the wear sensors. They must have gotten broken or worn off, so he drilled into the pad material and stuck them in there. He must have done a better job than me because neither one had grounded out and caused the BRAKE WARNING light to go on. Anyway, the Porterfield RS-4's are on.......NO BRAKE SQUEAL (I had used the spray-on "anti squeek" stuff.....seems to work great so far) and my BRAKE WARNING light is off!!!!!!! Now, does anyone know of a wear sensor that will fit the U channel in the Porterfield RS -4's????????? Anyone.......Buehler?....... I can make the other "plug side" work from my old ones by splicing it in if I need to. Thanks, Jeff
The factory pads I just removed are labelled "Galfer" at one side (below the hole) and "3320 FF" at the other. They have a backing pad in exactly the same place as the one in your picture - so I don't think it is mis-positioned; rather that is how they are produced. The pad on mine is in that same position, but it is labelled "Brembo" - I notice yours doesn't say this. My car is a '97 EU model. There was absolutely loads of material left on my pads too - I was replacing them to sort out very poor brake performance. The fact that the pads haven't worn much is probably very much to do with the poor braking as they are of course supposed to wear. It looks to me like someone did break the wear sensor so just drilled and inserted the sensor into the pad. There is no hole in the pads I removed. Ric.
