Group Buy: 3x8 Throttle Body Mod + Plenum Mod

I love Valvoline MaxLife, use it in everything; also throw in some Militec.

 

To meet spec these days, oils all contain various additive, like molybdenumdisulfide that protect the metal for a little while at start-up even with no oil film present.

I don’t think there is any significant difference in residual film between 30 and 50 weight oils because the engine is hot when it’s shut down and stays hot/warm for hours giving either oil plenty of time to drain back into the pan.

Anyway, a topic for another thread.

 

Not to drift too far off topic, but still on the subject of cheap horsepower, has anybody seen the EXP4 oil additive? I saw it on Speed Channel, where they tested it with back-to-back dyno runs and saw a 5% HP increase claimed to be the result of friction reduction. I'm not a believer in oil additives, nor would I be inclined to try it in the F-car, but it seemed to be an unbiased test with positive results. I can't find a link to the Speed Channel results, but the following link makes reference to it

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/whatsNew/index.shtml?0093

 

I hadn’t seen it before, but they do make a lot of claims. 5% more hp and 25-40F reduction in oil temp is a pretty big deal. I’ll do a little digging and see what I can find. When something does actually work, there is usually a lot of buzz to be found, so we’ll see what can be found. If I can’t find data I trust, I would definitely be willing to pour some in the next time I go to the dyno, but that won’t be until spring. It the temp reduction claim is true, that would let you set down 1 viscosity number and gain a couple more hp.



Steve, Peter may have found your missing grail

 

Oil seems to be one of those issues that to many people have to many theories about, and there are to many websites quoting misinformation it makes it truely difficult sometimes. Not that long ago, all car makers listed 20W50 in thier owners manuals. It was usually posted alongside some temperture chart with a range you could use. But CAFE caused first GM, then other makers, to move to thinner oil, and it was simply done to improve mileage. In fact, in order to certify thier cars could meet those mileage numbers, they HAD to put warnings all over to only use 5W30 or void the warrantee. And yeah, some of those cars driven easy made it a long ways. But that doesnt mean at high freeways speeds and high temps it liked it. But I have seen a new car that never had a oil change make it to 49K miles before dying, so GM certainly could gamble. Now so many are convinced, and so many young people are sucked in, its hard to make someone believe that someone like Ferrari actually knows what they are doing.

Personally, I think there are saner ways to make a few HP than thinning out the oil of a $25K+ engine.

 

Mark it will be interesting to hear what you find. My recollection is that in the Speed Channel test, they didn't observe any reduction in oil temperature (they thought because it was regulated by the oil cooler) but did see the HP bump.

 

I found this write-up that is pretty compelling, since it's a registered lab running a standard test.
http://landlinemag.com/Archives/2004/May2004/Bottom_Line/Does_it_work.htm


I found a race team that says they are running it at the track with good results, but don't say what the results are and exp4 is a sponsor
http://nsxprime.com/Gallery/spotlight/200306-dal/dal_motorsports.htm

Here’s some more claims, but real or not is a question.
http://www.centralcoastweb.com/nsxb/pages/m40.html


These guys don’t think it works is you go to the bottom of page 3
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=51086&page=3&pp=15

These guys think the speed show is a crock but didn't test anything.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=75082&highlight=exp4
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202938&highlight=exp4

Here's a guy that liked it and claims a milage/hp gain, but no data on hp


So, I found some compelling data that it improve fuel mileage in diesels, but nothing firm about the hp or mileage in a gas engine. The forums tend to dismiss it out of hand….it looks like testing is in order and I now just the man for the job:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83477

 

Y'all know what... there's all this stress on startup viscosity and quick flow to important engine parts.... GET A CARB CAR!!! I'm still cranking when oil pressure comes up! ROFL!

P.S.- as for throttle body and plenum mods... I doubt it's worth it for the FI owner. But what do I know, I've got 4 carbs to go synchronize!

 

Not to mention the fact that many (most?) of us let them sit much longer between start-ups than the family sedan. You let a car sit a couple of weeks and it won't matter which weight you prefer. It's going to drip off and end up in the bottom.

 

Motor bearings and parts I have taken apart all have a film of oil still on them even after sitting for months unused, the question is do you want a oil the viscosity of a sewing machine type or a heavy oil film protecting these parts as they are grinded together.

 

Here is how I see the oil issue. I have personally taken apart countless engines, from many many makes. Cars, from Jags, MB, MG, an Alfa, Renaults, Saab, Volvo, Many GM, Ford, Mopar, AMC, Jap cars, and a few diesels. I have taken apart small engines, outboard motors, and aircraft engines. The cleanest engines I ever took apart were the Alfa's, the Renault, and many of the aircraft engines. The Alfas and Renaults were both ran on Valvoline 20W50, the aircraft engines basically something simular weight, and all of them changed at low hours, like say 25 to 50. Small aircooled engines always seem sooty inside, probably from smoking the oil. But if the oil is good and changed regularly, even the rings are clean. So even in a motor that runs 100* above most liquid cooled engines, regular dino is able to hold up. But it does need changing at regular 50 hour intervals to keep it that way. But oil does more than just lubricate.

Oil removes heat, it offers corrosion resistance, it holds contaminants in suspension, and it keeps heavy loads on parts from contacting each other. The last one requires viscosity. It keeps pistons from scuffing the wall, crankshafts from contacting bearing surfaces. You look at motors that were run with good oil and changed regularly, and not only could you eat off the inside, there is minimal wear. Or none. We tore down Renault race motors at 25 hour intervals, and very rarely seen any problem. Many other racers seen the same thing.

 

Mark -- thanks for the info on EXP4, it would be interesting to see somebody do a local test w/dyno runs.

Regarding oil film, I have seen a display in stores like Pep Boys and Autozone for a Lucas oil additive that is interesting. The display has two sets of gears, one with normal oil and the other with Lucas additive -- you can spin both gears and see a huge difference in the way the oil sticks to the gears in the one with additive. I don't know how accurately this display represents the real world environment inside an engine, but the stiction appears to be something more than just thicker oil. Again, this probably isn't something I would experiment with in an F-car, but the simple gear demo on the display stand is fairly compelling.

 

If it is the gear demo I am thinking of, the effort required to turn the one with the additive is significantly higher.

Dave

 

I am not a big fan of the oil for hp mindset, it is all a little bit "snake oil" for me, but back to the real topic of this thread and getting more power out of the CIS system, maybe this is a step in the correct direction?

http://www.autotech.com/prod_engine_pwrmod.htm

I did notice that is was really for 4 bangers but maybe they could adapt it for the 110mm CIS system. Anyway the o2 sensor adaptor at the bottom of the page is a nice clean way of setting the A/F rate @ idle.

 

Certainly getting optimal mixture is key to gettin max hp out of any system. When we touched up my overly rich mixture during a dyno day, we picked up about 9hp!

With a Euro injected car, You don't need a system like the one in the preceding post. The mixture stays where you set it, so you just tune for max hp.

I can see how it might help the US spec cars tho. The lambda feedback loop tends to keep them lean. However, I"m not sure that you can't just adjust for max. performance & have the feedback loop keep it there. However, you probably wouldn't pass a sniffer test with it set that way.

 

What about disconnecting the O2 sensor on the K-jet with Lambda US spec systems. Wouldn't it then run at whatever level you set it? If so, the throttle body/CIS shim thing should work, right?

 

The mod in the post for VWs is for KE Jetronic, not K. The KE is a full electronic setup AFAIK.

Just to beat the horse a little more, the CIS fuel distributor is the problem. To improve performance, lose the CIS.

Dave

 

From what I have read CIS delivers plenty of fuel the the distributor is not the problem, its air thats the issue, get more air and you can richen up the mixture or it will do it itself. My 930 has a basically stock CIS distributor compared to a regular 911 so fuel is not the issue its air which the turbo jams in there for the extra hp.

 

My O2 sensor has been disconnected since before I owned it.

 

Does CIS even *care* about the O2 sensor(s)?? Most of the Bosch systems ignore the O2 sensors at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). They also ignore the O2 sensor(s) during a cold start, and often ignore them at idle.

My 348, which uses a later Bosch/Motronic system, only cares about the O2 sensors when both "the car is warm" and "the car is not at WOT."

It would be interesting to know if K-Jet (i.e. CIS) was the same.

Under this setup (i.e. ignoring the O2 at WOT), you get max peak horsepower when you demand it (e.g. full throttle), but otherwise get good gas mileage (as far as a sports tuned engine goes, anyway) because the O2 is telling the system to keep adjusting for the best stoichiometric (typically near 14.7 to 1) A/F ratio during "normal" driving.

 

Oh, and Roll Tide!

 

I may be wrong but I don't think my 308QV has a switch on the throttle body for "wide open throttle". Just an idle switch.

 

KE-Jet with Lambda on a TR (or a 412i I believe) is the same as your 348 -- it only uses the O2 sensor output when "the car is warm" and "the car is not at WOT". It also already has that "go open-loop (i.e., ignore the O2 sensors) and add some fixed enrichment via the EM valve when the throttle is more than ~60% open" feature described on that VW site.

 

Agreed - I was not clear in my post. My "complaint" about the fuel distributor is the restriction it places on the airflow. Of course, with the forced induction this restriction is a non-issue.

Dave

 

Flow restrictions are always an issue. The turbo/blower works harder and delivers hotter air and the engine makes less hp than if the restriction was fixed. A turbo/blower are no substitute for a good engine set-up.